18-02-2003 12:51									#1
	Locking the ISDG forum threads - discussion Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

My fellow Consul Ninot brought to my attention that people that will remain anonymous complained of too many threads being recently locked (well, he said deleted, too, but there was no thread deleted so far).

First: I am not sure if the people that will remain anonymous expressly asked to remain in anonymity or if Ninot just preferred not to tell their names... Anyway, everybody, if you are not comfortable with something, step ahead, and say it publicly. Or at least, PM or email me so that we can sort the issue out. I am not going to pay attention to anything relayed in an anonymous way.

Second: I stand behind all the locks I placed. This place was falling into chaos and a major clean-up was necessary. I locked all the threads that were no longer relevant and kept only the rest (what good is to question choosing Carthage when it's set in stone?). This place is likely to be pretty busy and I do want it to be organized, easy to follow. I will continue locking threads whose topics become obsolete, to keep the amount of useless debates at minimum. I will also keep locking threads like "I will Return" and "Yay!~ I just got a massive free time!" (no offense meant to their creators). Sorry, guys, these threads belong somewhere else, this is the forum reserved for the ISDG. Besides having fun, we have some work here to do. For all the executives, it will be crucial to keep in touch with the rest of the team, listening to the opinions of others. Having to sort through spam or almost-spam threads makes their life less enjoyable.

There are several threads locked that are highly relevant. I locked them in order to prevent people from posting there - those threads (all of them topped) are reserved for the Consuls only. The Consuls will unlock them temporarily whenever there is an addition or update needed, locking them back after changes are done. To every such thread, there is a corresponding discussion thread linked to, allowing everybody to have his say.

	18-02-2003 13:48									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

* Arnelos does not remember asking for anonymity, saying anything about deletion, or accusing Vondrack of anything, just pointing out that perhaps the thread-closing frenzy had been a bit of a binge. Arneloes also doesn't remember only sending a PM to Ninot (though will admit that 'poly was acting up rather badly last night and not everything I tried to post successfully did so... including polls this weekend that 'poly wouldn't let me post...).

Perhaps Ninot got PMs from other people who talked of such things

But I digress....

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Second: I stand behind all the locks I placed. This place was falling into chaos and a major clean-up was necessary. I locked all the threads that were no longer relevant and kept only the rest (what good is to question choosing Carthage when it's set in stone?). This place is likely to be pretty busy and I do want it to be organized, easy to follow. I will continue locking threads whose topics become obsolete, to keep the amount of useless debates at minimum. I will also keep locking threads like "I will Return" and "Yay!~ I just got a massive free time!" (no offense meant to their creators). Sorry, guys, these threads belong somewhere else, this is the forum reserved for the ISDG. Besides having fun, we have some work here to do. For all the executives, it will be crucial to keep in touch with the rest of the team, listening to the opinions of others. Having to sort through spam or almost-spam threads makes their life less enjoyable.

The other issues you have raised are not worrying and even this isn't that worrying, in fact. Quite a number of the threads which were closed were discussions that were essentially dead.

The issue has to do with the level to which the mod powers tend to be used in the single-player Democracy Game and to which most of us are accustomed to the mod power to close threads being used.

In the Apolyton Civ3DG, the only threads that are closed typically are:

- Official government threads
- Threads that have degraded so far into not only spam but harmful or shameful displays that closing them is merely the thing to do at that point.

Otherwise, threads are left open. People are free to post threads such as "I Will Return" from a friend long gone or "I have free time!" from someone who's been inactive for a while or "Leave of Absense" from someone like roadcage who seems to like that or any myriad of other things that have added needed color and spirit to the Apolyton Civ3 Democracy Game and made it the community that it is.

Strictly speaking, the line between community-related posts and spam is frequently skirted in the SPDG and many of our experiences are consistent with that there and in our PTW team forums.

As for old discussion threads, they are generally also kept open. That is so that they can be bumped at a later point and discussion re-started on the same topic in full view of previously discussed material on the topic, etc.

Discussion, community-building, friendly pseudo-spam, etc. It's all welcome in the SPDG and my hope is that it's welcome here as well.

The stuff that's really important, you top and/or lock (so that only people with mod powers can alter it). If someone posts in a topped official thread, you also have a "split thread" mod power you an use to seperate out the offending post from the official thread.

I recall that as President of the Civ3DG, I closed a grand total of 2 threads other than official threads during the entire month of my presidency. President Aggie before me may not have even used the close function that much during his month, or MrWIA before him. I honestly don't know if President Aro has EVER closed a non-official thread (he may have, I just don't remember it).

Let people post what they want to post. You can use the top and detop powers to make sure the important stuff stays at the top.

As for discussions, the important discussions will top themselves. If people keep posting in the thread, it will stay on the front page.

I'll grant that the culture and system that's evolved in the Apolyton Civ3DG over time takes a good deal of patience with organized chaos to put up with, but that's part of the unwritten job description for being a President (or Consul in this case).

Several of the threads you closed did need to be closed, but threads like "I have returned" from Duddha I hope are not closed in the future. Maybe that's just personal preference, but my experience here would indicate otherwise.

Sorry if I'm stepping on toes...

	18-02-2003 15:24									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos The other issues you have raised are not worrying and even this isn't that worrying, in fact. Quite a number of the threads which were closed were discussions that were essentially dead.

Exactly. Dead. That was why I closed them, linking to the ones I wanted to focus on, wherever possible. My intention was to limit any useless discussions and encourage those that were/are actually helpful.

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos The issue has to do with the level to which the mod powers tend to be used in the single-player Democracy Game and to which most of us are accustomed to the mod power to close threads being used.

Well, as I have never been into the Civ3DG, I have very little idea about what is a forum mod supposed to do in there. However, I have quite a sharp idea, what I want to do with the forum here. I admit that it may look like exerting a little bit too much power, especially now, after I have cleaned the startup mess up... however, believe me, it's not that I would be so overly excited about finally becoming a forum mod that I would go amok, overmoderating . I have been the mod to Legoland forum for some time, so this whole thing is not so new to me and the excitement is long gone.

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos In the Apolyton Civ3DG, the only threads that are closed typically are: [snip] - Threads that have degraded so far into not only spam but harmful or shameful displays that closing them is merely the thing to do at that point.

Well, frankly, I believe it is better to close a thread before it degrades to such a degree. And considering the hundreds of threads read in other forums, I believe threads tend to degrade when their topic is exhausted or no longer relevant.

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Otherwise, threads are left open. People are free to post threads such as "I Will Return" from a friend long gone or "I have free time!" from someone who's been inactive for a while or "Leave of Absense" from someone like roadcage who seems to like that or any myriad of other things that have added needed color and spirit to the Apolyton Civ3 Democracy Game and made it the community that it is. Strictly speaking, the line between community-related posts and spam is frequently skirted in the SPDG and many of our experiences are consistent with that there and in our PTW team forums. Discussion, community-building, friendly pseudo-spam, etc. It's all welcome in the SPDG and my hope is that it's welcome here as well.

You do have a point about the community thing. However, I still stand behind my initial intention to keep this place as uncluttered as possible. I will start a special "Community Announcements and Chitchat" thread that will be kept open to any kind of posts. All the "I have returned", "I am leaving", and "I feel happy" posts will have their place there. Other spam or low-info-value threads will be handled like I indicated before.

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos As for old discussion threads, they are generally also kept open. That is so that they can be bumped at a later point and discussion re-started on the same topic in full view of previously discussed material on the topic, etc.

I do not intend to close threads that may be relevant in the future, even if I prefer starting a new thread, linking to the old one in the first post. Bumping has the inherent problem that posters (me included) often overlook the fact that part of the thread is old stuff and comment on what is irrelevant since long ago. A new thread with a pointer to the old one helps avoid that.

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Sorry if I'm stepping on toes...

No problem, I started this thread exactly because I wanted to discuss the issue. I want others have their say, too. If there is a majority of people asking me to let the chaos reign (I am exaggerating, of course ), I will. Means less work for me. But unless there is a strong demand, I will keep moderating this forum much like I indicated in my first post.

	18-02-2003 18:33									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

In the SPDG, the President was given mod powers specifically so they could top organization and order threads. The intent was never for them to be typical forum moderators.

By moderating all the "clutter" away, you remove some of the personality of the team. The personality of the team is what will keep interest up over time, especially in a PBEM game.

I humbly suggest that the Consuls regard their mod powers as needed tools to perform their game duties efficiently, not as an additional responsibility to moderate this forum.

	19-02-2003 04:04									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by dejon In the SPDG, the President was given mod powers specifically so they could top organization and order threads. The intent was never for them to be typical forum moderators. By moderating all the "clutter" away, you remove some of the personality of the team. The personality of the team is what will keep interest up over time, especially in a PBEM game. I humbly suggest that the Consuls regard their mod powers as needed tools to perform their game duties efficiently, not as an additional responsibility to moderate this forum.

Sounds very reasonable to me.

	19-02-2003 04:09									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by dejon In the SPDG, the President was given mod powers specifically so they could top organization and order threads. The intent was never for them to be typical forum moderators. By moderating all the "clutter" away, you remove some of the personality of the team. The personality of the team is what will keep interest up over time, especially in a PBEM game. I humbly suggest that the Consuls regard their mod powers as needed tools to perform their game duties efficiently, not as an additional responsibility to moderate this forum.

I also agree.