18-02-2003 13:06									#1
	Turn 56, 1625 BC Inflate your Upload Space

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Researching Code of Laws at 100%, ready in 8 turns.
- 56 gold cash, -2 per turn

Urgent questions:
- Why do we still have no contact to Lux? We want contact, before they get wiped out. Vox gets enough benefits through our tech agreement, we want this contact now. Diplomats?

Military:

Economy:
- Verify that EotS is working three FPs and an irrigated fur.
- Everyone keeps doing what they're doing.

Diplomacy:

Last edited by nbarclay on 18-02-2003 at 20:07

	18-02-2003 13:12									#2
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Why do we still have no contact to Lux? We want contact, before they get wiped out. Vox gets enough benefits through our tech agreement, we want this contact now. Diplomats?

Seconded.

	18-02-2003 15:03									#3
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What are the ingame restrictions on slave trade? Do both capitals have to be on the same continent, for instance?
If a slave trade between Lux and ourselves is possible, we might wanna offer Lux a fair price for their workers, before they are captured by ND or GoW.

Edit: sorry if this was already discussed and I missed it.

	18-02-2003 19:53									#4
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The rule on the slave trade, from what I've read, is that both civs have to have cities (not necessarily capitals) on the same continent.

	19-02-2003 01:03									#5
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I play the turn now. The Glory of War is offering us Mathematics and HBR. We have nothing in return.

	19-02-2003 01:11									#6
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Mathematics too? I thought we were supposed to get that from Vox.

	19-02-2003 01:12									#7
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Team Scores:

98 (+2) Gathering Storm
106 (+2) Demogyptica
85 (+2) Glory of War
106 (+3) Role Play
77 (+0) Vox Controli
74 (+0) Lux Invicta
119 (+2) Legoland

We are falling back in culture. It looks like Vox built a temple last turn or the turn before.

	19-02-2003 01:19									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

Vox has to get Mathematics from GoW before they can give it to us. Just dismiss/ignore GoW's offer; even if we didn't have the deal with Vox, we're too good at researching to pay gold for a tech we have no immediate use for.

Nathan

	19-02-2003 01:27									#9
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I moved the northern warrior in the desert 9 on the hill, and the spearman also 9 on the mountain. We monitor now the whole N part of our land with the exception of 2 tiles. If we move the defender out of Tempest, we could monitor all in 2 turns. Thoughts?

	19-02-2003 01:31									#10
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I agree. IMHO we should delay the purchase of HBR as well, for two reasons:
1. In order not to aid GoW in its war against Lux (not that it would make much of a difference, it seems).
2. I don't see any need for horsemen right now. We only need HBR to enter the next age. Therefore, we can delay the purchase and reduce the price.

	19-02-2003 01:36									#11
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Also, I repeat my desire to get contact to Lux ASAP. Why doesn't Vox provide us with it?

	19-02-2003 01:42									#12
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I move the defender out. Nothing bad can happen in the next 2 turns. Now the only place, where barbarians could come from is Voxian territory, and that small stripe of FoW in the south (not sure about that, though).

Turn and screenshots will be sent soon.

	19-02-2003 01:42									#13
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Last I talked to Vox about it (before the war), they were hoping to get something from Lux in exchange for contact with us.

There are two approaches we could take at this point:

1) Ask Vox to go ahead and give us contact without waiting to make a deal with Lux.

2) Tell Vox we'd like to have contact with Lux before Lux dies. If they can come up with a deal with Lux that would be finished in the next day or two, that's fine, but otherwise, we'd like for them to go ahead and give us contact.

Nathan

	19-02-2003 01:52									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I moved the northern warrior in the desert 9 on the hill, and the spearman also 9 on the mountain. We monitor now the whole N part of our land with the exception of 2 tiles. If we move the defender out of Tempest, we could monitor all in 2 turns. Thoughts?

I have mixed feelings about this, since it decreases the chances for more barbarians showing up. Another 25 gold bonus and maybe a free promoted warrior couldn't hurt.
You could say that we might find ourselves in a bit of a mess when a barb horseman shows up next to a city that doesn't have reserve forces around, and we try to kill him with the warrior garrisoning the city and fail. I doubt the chance of that happening though.
Let's take the worst scenario as an example: a barb horseman emerges from 999 of Tempest and moved 24 and is now sitting on top of the mountain 9 of Tempest. Suppose the mountain is mined, and we don't want the barbarian to pillage our improvement. We attack the barb with the regular warrior currently garrisoning Tempest and... lose. Since we don't have any backup units around, Tempest will be at the mercy of the barb. This is indeed a frightening scenario, but the odds of us losing such a battle (fighting with just a regular warrior, on terrain that greatly favors the barbarian) are 7.3%, according to CivFanatics's Combat Calculator. With the barb sitting on a hill instead of a mountain, it's 4%. With the barb sitting on a mountain but with us attacking using a vet warrior, it's 2.6%.

What do you think?

	19-02-2003 01:54									#15
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We could give Vox money to sell their contact with us to Lux (confusing, but the correct sentence...I think). This makes Lux slightly more potent in war, and gets us what we want. Of course, we need to trust Vox to agree to the deal and get it done quickly.


Dominae

	19-02-2003 01:58									#16
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay 1) Ask Vox to go ahead and give us contact without waiting to make a deal with Lux. 2) Tell Vox we'd like to have contact with Lux before Lux dies. If they can come up with a deal with Lux that would be finished in the next day or two, that's fine, but otherwise, we'd like for them to go ahead and give us contact.

Lux probably won't pay for contact with us because of the war. Vox won't get anything out of them for contact with us, but I doubt we can convince them to just hand it over before they're absolutely sure that they can't profit from it.

Anyway, if you speak to Vox, be sure to ask them about contact with ND as well.

	19-02-2003 02:09									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The F11 screen says we're #1 in population (for the first time?), even though we've suffered from 5 turns of disease.

Going to upload the shots in a minute.

	19-02-2003 02:10									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae We could give Vox money to sell their contact with us to Lux (confusing, but the correct sentence...I think). This makes Lux slightly more potent in war, and gets us what we want. Of course, we need to trust Vox to agree to the deal and get it done quickly.

Wrong direction. It's Vox that would sell and Lux that would buy if there is a sale rather than a gift. In any case, I can't see our gold doing enough good in Lux's hands to justify giving it up; not with two civs ganging up on them.

	19-02-2003 02:14									#19
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Duh, yeah, sorry. But Lux would do very well with some extra gold, assuming they know how to play. The better the fight Lux puts up, the better we're doing relative to everyone involved in the war.


Dominae

	19-02-2003 02:18									#20
	Screenshots Get a bigger avatar today!

Shots are here. If you want to set up a special thread, just copy the URLs of the images.

Last edited by Shiber on 19-02-2003 at 02:27

	19-02-2003 02:26									#21
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I've had an insane idea: what if we get contact with Lux, and then offer them a loan. We'd tell them that if they survive the war, they'd have to return it with a certain interest, but if they realize that they're about to lose and they can't return the loan (even if it is without the interest), they will have to give us their last city and any gold that they have left to compensate.
This is crazy, I know, but if they agree to it and have to give us their last city, we'd get:
1. Contact with ND.
2. Money. We could offer to give the city to either ND or GoW (whichever was more likely to conquer it) for a certain sum of gold.
We face the possibility that ND or Gow (especially GoW under GhengisFarb's leadership) will decide to conquer that city from our hands anyway, thus declaring war on us in-game but actually taking what was technically theirs. However, there is also a potential for good profit in here.

Thoughts? Comments? Trout-slaps?

	19-02-2003 03:04									#22
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They couldn't give us their capital if they wanted to, but here's another twist on the offer if they have any other cities left:

Instead of a loan, Lux could sell us a city with the understanding that they can buy it back for a higher price (or maybe even the same price) later if they survive and if the city isn't taken away from us first. (We'd keep whatever units we've produced there while we own it.) In the meantime, that would also open up the possibility of their selling us slaves. They'd lose the city's production, but having one less city could help them focus tighter on defending on what they do have.

The idea is a bit on the crazy side, and I'm not sure how much I like it myself, but it might possibly be worth considering.

Nathan

	19-02-2003 03:25									#23
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ND or GoW will just take the city. I'm not sure we could hold it with the 10 turn regular Warriors we could produce there.

Also, you are in a fight for your life. You are going to sell one-third or one-half of your production capacity for a few gold? Please tell me that no team in this game is that stupid.

	19-02-2003 03:56									#24
	Remove this text

Yeah, you're right NYE, all that Lux has left is with a chance to go down fighting- dying honorably and all that. I can't see them agreeing on such a deal, although popping that city in front of ND's territory does suggest they don't give their play too much thought...

Btw- isn't the upload feature just great?

	19-02-2003 17:24									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

My guess is that Lux has been building a barracks, which is either just finished, or is about to get rushed very soon. With a barracks, they can upgrade those few warriors they have (what was it GF said, 1 spear and 4 warriors?), as most likely they are not desperate for cash. Giving them a loan won't do any good, as gold is not the problem, infrastructure is...

According to GoW, Lux has 2 cities. Apart from the risk of GoW or ND taking an undefended city, I seriously doubt that Lux is going to give it's last city away, even assuming they trust us. Good creative thinking, but not really something we can use.

DeepO

	19-02-2003 19:27									#26
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Actually, I was hoping that my idea would have given someone else a better idea.
Thanks for the compliments on creativity, btw.