19-02-2003 21:56									#1
	I KNEW we forgot something Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Posted in the IDG Forum by Togas:

quote: Despite the many things Lux Invicta did in the foreign policy world that were arrogant and foolish, Trip's agressive future tech trade schemes were initially very sucessful, and allowed Lux to function on a minimal research budget while keeping at pace with the rest of the world around them. He also kept his contact with Vox well hidden and pawned off Vox's research as his own to his unsuspecting neighbors. His mistake was in not blocking the one square that allowed access to Vox. GoW discovered this square, got contact, and destroyed Lux's scheme by releasing the knowledge to others.

	19-02-2003 21:58									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

And also:

quote: In the PTW Game we created an alliance with Lux Invicta that was purely defensive and was voided if Lux started a war. We then slipped word to Neu Dem at the brink of war that our alliance would be activated if Neu Dem declared war, but not if Lux did. As fate would have it, Lux started the war and Spain was able to escape untouched. (sidenote: The alliance was also due to run out in a turn, and we had purposely stalled negotiations ... see point 4)

	19-02-2003 21:59									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

And now this:

quote: In the PTW game Trip very persistantly kept on me about redoing the alliance between our nations and I told him we wanted to renew and that I had assigned it to jdjdjd. I told jdjdjd explicitly to add new provisions, make up new terms, and stall like mad on the deal. Jdjdjd also wasn't exceptionally active at the time due to RL work issues... a normally bad trait for an ambassador, but a good trait in this situation... and for three days I was covered because "Jdjdjd should have done that yesterday..." and "I don't understand, jdjdjd is usually very on top of these things. If he doesn't write you by tomorrow, let me know" and so forth. The process was successfully stalled, the treaty would have run out before our intentionally slow reneg process would have concluded.

	20-02-2003 03:21									#4
	According to their own words RP violated the alliance! Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Look at the Terms of the alliance and Togas' own comments:

Article IV (from the Alliance deal): The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that any defensive war initiated by another agressive civilization is to trigger the alliance

Togas' own comments(from ISDG forum):In the PTW Game we created an alliance with Lux Invicta that was purely defensive and was voided if Lux started a war. We then slipped word to Neu Dem at the brink of war that our alliance would be activated if Neu Dem declared war, but not if Lux did. As fate would have it, Lux started the war and Spain was able to escape untouched. (sidenote: The alliance was also due to run out in a turn, and we had purposely stalled negotiation

Conclusion: Togas admits the alliance was still in effect when hostilities commenced. The fact the alliance was due to end next turn is irrelevent here, a deal is a deal. Togas has misinterpreted article IV. Any reasonable person would agree placing 4 attacking units next to your city constitutes an agressive action, even if they were in ND territory.In my opinion, the alliance SHOULD have been activated when we attacked in a defensive manner.

Last edited by CiverDan on 20-02-2003 at 04:04

	20-02-2003 08:13									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

At this point it doesn't matter, so there's no need to inflame the relationship with RP at this point, as they can't help us, and we don't need them anyways.