19-02-2003 22:33									#1
	Awesome Berserker Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I just started playing as the Scandinavians and have discovered the awesome offensive capability of the Berserker unit.

The Berserk unit is COOL!!!!!!
They can't defend anything worth spit, but man can they attack!!! They have a 6 attack--same as Guerilla, only 2 defense--same as Spearman. They can take out Knights, but can be killed by Archers (the old, flint-type ones. not just the new-fangled Longbowmen w/ metal arrowheads--the very unit that the Berserk replaces). I've been having some fun determining the best strategies for them.

But what's REALLY COOL is the amphibious assault action!!
There used to be a time when a ruler didn't worry about those Galleys or Caravels just off his coast. They would have to land somewhere and if you had the units to block your coastline they would have to sail far away to land their 2 or 3 units. Not so w/ the Vikings!! Those 2 Berserkir in that Galley can attack your Pikemen or Spearmen right from the boat! If you've used your defending units to block the coast, you will now have to use them to try and retake your city (which unless those Vikings brought some defenders might actually be easy.)

Berserkers can take cities, but you have to have something else to hold them. Follow your Berserkir with good defensive units.

Make lots of them (after their initial attack, they will usually die if counter attacked) as well as Galleys/Caravels. A stack of about 6 Berserkir (3 Galleys or 2 Caravels worth) can usually take cities defended by Pikemen or lower. It takes about double that amount to take a city defended by Musketmen if the city has additional defensive bonuses (large population, walls, or on a hill). Musketmen have 4 defense vs. Berserk 6 attack. Out in the open the Berserker will usually win vs. Muskets (if he attacks first, he might lose if attacked by the Musketman).

Other than the fact that Berserkers generally suck rocks defending stuff, they totally RULE as an offensive power. Believe me, they are offensive!

Happy Berserking:
Build lots of them.
Build lots of boats to haul them.
Attack Hard. Attack Fast.
Attack from the sea if you want.
Follow with defenders.

	20-02-2003 02:06									#2
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It's true they rock though. Too bad their trait is Expansionist, which is a bummer considering they show their true power in Archipelago maps where you usually get a small Island to start from.

	20-02-2003 10:05									#3
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I think they are one of the best UU's, and are pretty underrated.

Berserker rushes can really disrupt the game in the medieval time lapse between invention and military tradition.

	20-02-2003 14:22									#4
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quote: Originally posted by minke19104 It's true they rock though. Too bad their trait is Expansionist, which is a bummer considering they show their true power in Archipelago maps where you usually get a small Island to start from.

Pottery is on the way to map making. So expansionist is good on archipelago maps too.

	20-02-2003 16:10									#5
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About the berserker unit and it's animation.

Do you ever wonder how much that axe weighs? A steel blade of that size must be atleast 50kg (110 lbs). So a man wielding that kind of axe has to be pretty strong

	20-02-2003 16:16									#6
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo a man wielding that kind of axe has to be pretty strong

Not much stronger than the average Swede

	20-02-2003 16:50									#7
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the axe hanging around your neck isn't made of steel. It's either wood, plastic or fiberglass.

I mean really, the blade is larger than my monitor.
I'm impressed.

	20-02-2003 21:29									#8
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo Do you ever wonder how much that axe weighs?

What's more, it requires no iron to build. Perhaps they just improvise the Huge Ax with scraps of available material.

It would be kinda cool (perhaps a bit sick) to have a 'Beowulf'-style of animation. The Berserk should use his enemy's arm as a weapon. Now that would be something!

	20-02-2003 23:16									#9
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Why not have a "bloody" Civ version? Dead units would lay splattered throughout history (maybe fade away like in AoE), tanks would squash their victims etc.

	21-02-2003 02:00									#10
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Although the european bigots would eventually turn the blood green or something like that

	21-02-2003 22:17									#11
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The Berserks were historically known primarily for the wild behavior they assumed when entering battle. They'd work themselves into a frenzy, and they'd be "strong as an ox", impervious to iron or fire. I believe once the body of a berserkir was discovered with dozens of arrow heads in his torso, a testament to how wild they were in battle.

	23-02-2003 08:05									#12
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Sometimes I think about how the scandinavian UU should be a special dragonboat... but the berserker seems very fine as well.

It`s good the don`t made the figure use a horned helmet!

	24-02-2003 07:26									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I think they are one of the best UU's, and are pretty underrated. Berserker rushes can really disrupt the game in the medieval time lapse between invention and military tradition.

Yep, and that is what my ancestors did historically. They wanted a free vacation to good ol' Valhalla to prepare for Ragnarok.

YORE!!! DIE SAXONS, DIE!!!

	24-02-2003 21:54									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Berserker rushes can really disrupt the game in the medieval time lapse between invention and military tradition.

They're even good vs Cavalry--at least if they are attacking. They die quickly if Cavalry is attacking them.

They might start being useless toward the end of the Industrial Era, but they're good (at offense) all through the Middle Ages. They don't really become obsolete until Marines.

	24-02-2003 21:58									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit Although the european bigots would eventually turn the blood green or something like that

They don't have to be 'European'. There's plenty of the 'politically correct' panty waists her in the USA, as, I'm sure, most other countries.

Although...... suposedly blood does make the grass grow. At least that's what our high school coaches used to tell us.

	24-02-2003 22:01									#16
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy I believe once the body of a berserkir was discovered with dozens of arrow heads in his torso, a testament to how wild they were in battle.

More likely, a testament to the opposing side's 'lack of skill' with the bow.

But I do understand your comment and I was not trying to debate it--just throw in some humor.

	24-02-2003 22:04									#17
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quote: Originally posted by pedrojedi Sometimes I think about how the scandinavian UU should be a special dragonboat...

As I understand, the Dragonboats were feared, but was it the boats that were feared, or what they contained?

Perhaps the boats were only dreaded because they heralded what was to come--leaping over the sides and through the village.

	25-02-2003 05:58									#18
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quote: Perhaps the boats were only dreaded because they heralded what was to come--leaping over the sides and through the village.

That's a point of view, I don't disagree with it. But I was thinking about the "technological" side of the longboat: those guys got all the way through the ocean to Greenland and America. Of course, it was a "coasting ice" route, but still! No trirreme could possibly do that!!! I keep imagining greeks freezing cold, trembling while trying to find their way through the tormentous waves of the north when pondering about a galley cruising the north atlantic/artic sea.

And that boat could also travel through rivers, all the way through Russia to the Caspian Sea! Talk about malleability! Through the ocean, through the sea, through the land or through the river. Hey, it even got some part in burial stuff. That should give some ceremonial burial bonus, huh?

	26-02-2003 16:29									#19
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The Vikings success was a combination of shipcraft and guts. The flat-bottom dragon ships could be sailed anywhere: river, ocean, arctic coast or even dragged over land for long distances between the Russian rivers. The guts came from the pagan religion, where they believed they would come to Valhall (similar to Paradise) if they died in battle (just like the Muslim fanatics).

According to the legend, the Berserks got themselves stoned on poison fungus to become totally wild and ruthless. How often this trick was actually used, if ever, I don't know.

With the help of the dragon ships, they cought people totally by surprise by sailing far up the rivers and attacking where people least expected it.

The Vikings alone would be a reason enough to buy PTW. If they would ever mind to release it here in Viking land. I'm still waiting.

	02-03-2003 20:46									#20
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Considering that poison fungus, it´s (as you wrote) only a legend... But you never know.

I thought they had set the release to 13th feb, I´m really starting to get impatient here...

	02-03-2003 21:44									#21
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Few things compensate being a brasilian; receiving PTW before is one of them. It's not "oh, that's SO good" but it can make life a little less miserable.

The fungus story can very well be truth. Many ancient cultures used different drugs for different reasons, usually religious or warcraft. Sometimes partying. There are evidences that ancient human beings made alcohol beverages about 200.000 years ago!

	03-03-2003 02:29									#22
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i find it interesting that the berserker has such a low defense, considering that the stories *i* recall about berserkers usually involved epic defensive combat - what was it, 40 berserkers holding off an entire army? memory is a bit hazy, but still. would YOU advance on the axe wielding maniacs?

oh well, that's playbalancing for you

	03-03-2003 20:58									#23
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Well, attack IS the best defence...

	04-03-2003 01:25									#24
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From what I've read, the Berserks got wasted pretty easily once the "mainlanders" started fighting back.

To get back to strategy, obviously the "wonder use" of the Berserkir is as an amphib attack unit, but how do y'all use them in continental warfare?

Don't laugh if the answer seems obvious... I'd really like to know. Mostly, what balance? Do you just go all out cranking the Berserks out or do you throw in some Pikemen here and there?

	04-03-2003 02:48									#25
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Continental Warfare is for the Knights..

Beserkir is just too slow for that. I guess you can make pikes to go along with them but it's inefficient.

I only played once as Vikings, but what I would do is amass them in boats and bring a pikeman along. Go for coastal city attack from the boat, then move the boat inside the city and unload the pikeman there. If I'm advanced enough (usually beelined for Invention before Chivalry), I would bring some Knights to attack the mainland afterwards.

The Beserkir are best used for Marine tactics, period . I would regenerate health and load them up again to take over another coastal cities. If enough coastal cities have been taken then maybe some Knights would go in.

	05-03-2003 09:06									#26
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quote: Originally posted by pauli i find it interesting that the berserker has such a low defense, considering that the stories *i* recall about berserkers usually involved epic defensive combat - what was it, 40 berserkers holding off an entire army? memory is a bit hazy, but still. would YOU advance on the axe wielding maniacs?

You might be thinking of, actually, not Vikings but the Anglo-Saxons defending againsts Vikings... Birhtnoth and his comitatus (i.e., posse or bodyguards) fought a hugely epic defensive battle against Scandinavian marauders around the end of the first millenium.

I believe berserkers were mainly offensive psychos.

As opposed to defensive psychos (i.e., me in some crazy games ).

	05-03-2003 09:11									#27
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The Berserker is Amphibious???????

I had no idea about this... guess I know what my next civ to play is gonna be...

	05-03-2003 16:14									#28
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based on my understanding (which i admit may well be quite flawed), firaxis has labeled standard viking raiders 'berserkers.' raiders were by definition offense oriented, while the beserkers, as i understand it, were fabled warriors who were even more feared than the raiders. iirc, they were said to be impervious to fire and arrows.

hmm, i'll see if i can do some research on the subject today.

	05-03-2003 20:13									#29
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Actually, Firaxis got it right, though it didn't go into great detail... the "berserks" were most likely epileptics, who charged forth and weren't REALLY impervious to fire and steel, but just acted that way.

I'm an epileptic, and I can assure you that when you have a seizure, you can't be stopped. After the seizure, on the other hand, you can bleed, pass out, die, etc.

And this I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure that most of the raiders went "berserk" in battle. There were most likely more impressive warriors, maybe even a class of them, but I think the term "berserk" can be applied to the average viking raider.

But correct me if I'm wrong.

	05-03-2003 20:47									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen The Berserker is Amphibious??????? I had no idea about this... guess I know what my next civ to play is gonna be...

That's where 2/3 of the fun lies. 6 attack is more than enough to capture any cities up until rifleman . Muskets fall easily to beserks, pikemen is a joke to them.

I just started another game (monarch, huge, archipelago) with beserks. I got a pretty decent landmass in my island. I've managed to get Collosus, Pyramids (captured), FP (rushed), Great Library(rushed), Sun Tzu (rushed), I just hit Invention, and I also have Great Lighthouse.

I think it's time to unleashed these mad beserkirs to the world. Especially when somehow I got no luxuries whatsoever in my land