22-02-2003 00:25									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Einstein once said that science brought us closer to God. Most Christians I know always quote this believing that ultimately science will bow down to the bible. I think Einstein's intent was that science would bring us closer to true knowledge, the REAL god.

Einstein said that in the debate about an absolute universe... The basis for his famous "God does not play dice" quote. Sadly, Einstein was wrong. God.. or another more rational force plays dice all the time: evidenced by the manifestation of Quantum Mechanic effects and Quantum Field effects. For the most simplistic demonstratable effect, see the Casimir effect experiment.

quote: "What is the Casimir effect?" From Usenet physics FAQ The Casimir effect is a small attractive force which acts between two close parallel uncharged conducting plates, It is due to quantum vacuum fluctuations of the electromagnetic field. The effect was predicted by the Dutch physicist Hendrick Casimir in 1948, According to the quantum theory, the vacuum contains virtual particles which are in a continuous state of fluctuation (see physics FAQ article on virtual particles), Casimir realised that between two plates, only those virtual photons whose wavelengths fit a whole number of times into the gap should be counted when calculating the vacuum energy, The energy density decreases as the plates are moved closer which implies there is a small force drawing them together.

	22-02-2003 01:09									#62
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quote: However, it promotes the message that everyone can be a god, which rejects the truth of the one true God; this, in my eyes, is far worse than violence.

That's ****ing hilarious! I love it! Fundies crack me up (not a blanket broadside versus Christians or religious people in general, btw).

-Arrian

	22-02-2003 01:13									#63
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And its not that they are... just what they say...

	22-02-2003 03:42									#64
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I loved this one, on Neverwinter Nights (emphasis added):

quote: If this game had less violence and if the only magic you used was to heal people, then this game would be acceptable.

If the only magic was to heal people, NWN would be a crappy game.

Wait a minute, why is healing magic any less occult than a fireball? Because Jesus healed? Wouldn't that be worse, because you are pretending to be Jesus or something?

	22-02-2003 03:44									#65
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Wait a minute:

quote: 90-100% (A) These games are free of virtually all violence, language, sexual, and occult content or material. They also contain Biblical material and/or educational material. Example: Civilization III

Did I miss something? Where is the "biblical material" in Civ3?

	22-02-2003 05:23									#66
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This is just hysterical!

Pap

	22-02-2003 06:45									#67
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Wait a minute: Did I miss something? Where is the "biblical material" in Civ3?

CIV3 rewrites the bible...

	22-02-2003 06:50									#68
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Rock n roll

Now I only have to write 171 spams to get a custom avatar...

	22-02-2003 07:07									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre CIV3 rewrites the bible...

No, they are indicating that "grade A" games have some kind of (I guess positive) biblical material...

	22-02-2003 08:48									#70
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The "truth" of the ONE true god?

I'd like to see the Muslims and Hindus accept that. Face it, there is no absolute truth when the majority of the world's population, no matter what religion you are, think's you are wrong.

But then again, it's human nature to invent things that they don't understand. (that's why in the beginning there were gods of thunder, rain, fertility, bla bla bla). As science slowly began explaining things these gods were slowly discarded. But people still can't understand themselves, and probably never will, and that's perhaps the only logical reason to have faith in a deity, and not in themselves.

And BTW, I'm not an atheist. Saying you are an atheist is the same as saying you believe. There is no 100% evidence that god doesn't exist either. So frankly, this is a question that will only be answered when you're dead, until then, a simple "I don't know" suffices. Be brave, be smart, accept that man has yet to find the answers. But don't be foolish to invent them.

	22-02-2003 08:52									#71
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Wait a minute: Did I miss something? Where is the "biblical material" in Civ3?

Maybe they keep some bibles stashed inside the Cathedrals...

	22-02-2003 08:56									#72
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BTW...

too bad they took out Fundamentalism in Civ3, if not they surely would have said something about it, not realizing they are Fundies themselves!

	22-02-2003 10:42									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen The "truth" of the ONE true god? I'd like to see the Muslims and Hindus accept that.

Uh, they do. There is only one true God in Islam.

You're right about Hindus, though.

	22-02-2003 19:23									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen And BTW, I'm not an atheist. Saying you are an atheist is the same as saying you believe. There is no 100% evidence that god doesn't exist either. So frankly, this is a question that will only be answered when you're dead, until then, a simple "I don't know" suffices. Be brave, be smart, accept that man has yet to find the answers. But don't be foolish to invent them.

How come I can't invent my own answer when that's what mankind has been doing for thousands of years vith religion?

I believe that no god exists. If I believe this, am I then not an atheist? Isn't that the same as saying that if you believe in god you're not a believer?

And no man has ever been satisfied with "I don't know". We all need to believe something, either that there is a god(s) or spirits that guide us from above, or that there is no such thing as a god and the answers lie elsewhere, be it in science or whatever you can come up with.

	22-02-2003 21:50									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Gunnar Thor How come I can't invent my own answer when that's what mankind has been doing for thousands of years vith religion?

You definitely can! All I'm saying is that we're fooling each other by just inventing things we don't know.

quote: And no man has ever been satisfied with "I don't know". We all need to believe something, either that there is a god(s) or spirits that guide us from above, or that there is no such thing as a god and the answers lie elsewhere, be it in science or whatever you can come up with.

Unfortunately mankind has always invented things he doesn't know. And used that "knowledge" to exert power over other people.



I'm 99.99% convinced that god doesn't exist.

BTW, this has really turned into an OT thread...

	22-02-2003 21:53									#76
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Uh, they do. There is only one true God in Islam. You're right about Hindus, though.

Actually I was referring to the fact that each religion believes their own god or gods are the true ones. Just like I believe I was the best Civ1 player of all time... no way to prove it!

	22-02-2003 21:54									#77
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Maybe they keep some bibles stashed inside the Cathedrals... [/QUOTE]

I know that in my CivIII worlds all temples and cathedrals contain the Book of Dworkin which states amongst all the foderol about golden showers and coveting Aztec stuff.

If thee get rowdy and annoys My person with burnings and announcements then the Hand of the Dworkin shall come and smack thee in the head. You shall be so dazed by My mighty blow that thou shalt decide to become an entertainer and perform at children's parties. (Annoyances 3:15-20)

Thou shalt love kings light fireworks for your God. For he likes pretty things. (Jubilations 8:27)

Be happy with one's lot in life or thou shalt get thy ass drafted. (Dworkinometry 5:12)

Go where thy God wants you to go and not where The Daft Bastard indicates by his clumsy stabs at the Holy Keyboard. (Curses 1:16)

	22-02-2003 22:31									#78
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I was at an atheist site a while back where they had parodies of acceptable christian games based on the bible. It's to bad I didn't write the link down.

They had games such as--

You go through egypt as the angel of death slaughtering all the first born children but make sure you don't go into any of the doors marked with lamb's blood. Points are given on how many babies you can slaughter at what speed and you lose points for accidently slaughtering Jewish babies.

Another one was where you were the Isrealites and you had to conquer another tribe (I forget the name I would have to look it up in the bible). After you are done conquering them you go to a bonus level. In the bonus level God tells you that you didn't do well enough and you must kill all the men, male children and animals but you can keep the young virgin women for yourself. In the bonus level you rack up points slaughtering, maiming and killing. Points are based on the number of men and women you kill, with bonus points for killing the male children and capturing the virgin girls. You lose points for killing virgins by accident.

I wonder what rating these games would get on this guy's site they are all strongly based on biblical fiction with situations taken right out of the bible. Hey, you want rape, murder, genocide, and general mayhem with a bit of ancient pornography look no further then your local Holy Book of atrocities the christian bible.

	22-02-2003 23:46									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Unfortunately mankind has always invented things he doesn't know. And used that "knowledge" to exert power over other people.

Excacly, religion is a tool used to explain what we can't understand.

An interesting side-effect of religion is that whereever you look in the world the gods of the local religion reflect the enviromental conditions the people live with. Two tribes in Africa (I can't remember the exact tribes, I think it was ancient Egypt and another one) lived pretty close to each other, but one lived near the Nile (IIRC) and enjoyed fertile crops and never starved. The other one wasn't so fortunate and starvation and disease was common with them. The effect of this was that the tribe that lived near the Nile had benevolent gods but the other tribe had gods that punished them. Makes you think, doesn't it?

	23-02-2003 00:45									#80
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The Spirit is as much a part of human nature as is Evolution. The archaeology (and paleontology) is clear. The discovery of the Spirit World has deep roots in the prehistoric past.

The dawn of belief is the dawn of humankind.

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	23-02-2003 01:23									#81
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Gunnar:

That's very interesting. Understanding religion helps us alot in understanding the culture behind it.

	23-02-2003 06:20									#82
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quote: Young earth/old earth doesn't have a whole lot to do with Darwin...more to do with Big Bang and background radiation stuff than Darwin.

That's not entirely true. Usually when I hear complaints about this, it's about the age. There are folks who seem to think the old testament is a calendar and have dated the age of the universe at a few thousand years old. Thus, the game claiming a planetary age of billions of years would be "antireligious." Since everything bad in the world comes from the theory of evolution, anything bad in a game is related to evolution, of course.

	23-02-2003 10:28									#83
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I still don't understand why Christians refuse to accept the theory of evolution. For all its flaws, evolution seems much less far feched than creationism.

Personally I don't believe in the Big Bang theory but evolution? Look into a mirror after waking up with a major hangover and you WILL look like a monkey!

	23-02-2003 12:40									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I still don't understand why Christians refuse to accept the theory of evolution. For all its flaws, evolution seems much less far fetched than creationism. ...

It's in the Bible and nothing that contradicts it (in any of their interpretations) is allowed. Can you imagine the vulnerability of all other facets of the Bible if just 1 crack appears? Next thing you know everything would be just metaphors, and all the "literal interpretation of the Bible" people would be churchless. They therefore have to stonewall the age of the Earth issue.

(With apologies to Christians: I'm only referring to human nature, and it applies to non-Christians too.)

	23-02-2003 13:21									#85
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quote: based on biblical fiction with situations taken right out of the bible

Why use two words, where one is mooore than enough...What's the word for it, tautology...

	23-02-2003 19:18									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Gunnar Thor Excacly, religion is a tool used to explain what we can't understand. An interesting side-effect of religion is that whereever you look in the world the gods of the local religion reflect the enviromental conditions the people live with. Two tribes in Africa (I can't remember the exact tribes, I think it was ancient Egypt and another one) lived pretty close to each other, but one lived near the Nile (IIRC) and enjoyed fertile crops and never starved. The other one wasn't so fortunate and starvation and disease was common with them. The effect of this was that the tribe that lived near the Nile had benevolent gods but the other tribe had gods that punished them. Makes you think, doesn't it?

I think you are comparing the beliefs of Egypt and Mesopotamian gods. In Egypt the Nile floods at regular intervals and the floods are predictable and therefore seen as benificient, hence they developed benificial gods. In Mesopotamia the Euphrates river floods rapidly and unpredictably, hence the development Mesopotamian gods that punishes its inhabitants.

	23-02-2003 21:16									#87
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Look at the bright side, the moment a UFO lands and little green men come out on worldwide-TV, most religions will go down the drain...(except for those Raelian sect guys)

	23-02-2003 22:27									#88
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Personally, I think people believe in god(s) to get spiritual confort, and know that when they`ll be dead, there`ll be a nice heaven to receive them, and not an simple void of nothingness and oblivion. I get myself really conforted believing that`s the truth, even though I know it can be just a Freudian negation of death.

When a discussion comes to some topics, it becomes really a matter of personal choice and peace of consciousness. If there`s people who choose to be mentally restricted by an ancient book and its sometimes questionable laws and examples, then it is only my obligation to respect and understand that choice, even if I don`t agree with it. The only thing I don`t like about some fanatics is how they try to make me believe in their faiths and body of wisdom. But that`s a rare event.

Final Law for me is: I believe in what I want, you believe in what you want. Let`s just help each other and be nice, and peace should follow.

It`s just a pity mr. Bush don`t seem to understand some issues very well...

	24-02-2003 05:43									#89
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Yet more words for the pixels:

"If the perfidious spearmen resist thy glorious tank, thy 10 other tank divisions shalt be instructed to pulp their bodies and use it as axel grease." - Smackdowns 12:3

"Thou shalt covet everything, it is all ours." Dworkinometry 8:21

"Keep Dworkin happy, win first time." - Dworkinometry 8:23

"Alexander is a wimp, thee must give him a multitude of wedgies" Wierdos 5:10

	24-02-2003 10:37									#90
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quote: Originally posted by pedrojedi When a discussion comes to some topics, it becomes really a matter of personal choice and peace of consciousness. If there`s people who choose to be mentally restricted by an ancient book and its sometimes questionable laws and examples, then it is only my obligation to respect and understand that choice, even if I don`t agree with it. The only thing I don`t like about some fanatics is how they try to make me believe in their faiths and body of wisdom. But that`s a rare event.

I think the issue here is to have tact when arguing about such a touchy subject. Religious people have every right to question my non-religious views, I am so confident of my own beliefs that I believe I can out-argue them if they try to convince me otherwise (and try they have!). Confidence is really important. You must be sure of what you believe in. People who are insecure with their beliefs are usually the ones who stop an argument saying they are being disrespected or something like that, a defensive posture.