20-02-2003 06:13									#1
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Something that was brought up in the ND-GoW chat was that we could give Lux a city on the coast to build a settler with and a boat and they could then sail to Legoland and start over there.

Thus allowing Lux to survive AND giving Lego someone to compete with for land.

Other Possibilities
1) Lux gets a free tech at the start of the new age (Monotheism) which is needed for us to get to Chivalry and our UU.

2) We might be able to accomplish our war objectives will out losing units and stockpile them for the war with Roleplay.

With that in mind I mentioned it to Trip:

quote: Trip wrote on 19-02-2003 12:51: quote: GhengisFarb wrote on February 19th, 2003 09:00 am: Even if ND doesn't agree to it, if you gave us former Camp Felix, we would let your settler go to the other side of our capital to build the coastal city. Based on the border agreement ND gave us it would be well behind our lines and they would have to go through a thick layer of our cities to get there. I don't think they would have a problem with this they are primarily interested in taking all of your land. Darekill said that his team probably wouldn't go for it. At this point, if they refuse, even temporarily (which is the most likely), and we are unable to get a settler out (which is also likely), then Lux will probably be taken out before things can be done. The best way to enact this plan would be to trade Felix to GoW for an interior GoW city on the coast. While GoW might not like this idea, it may be the only way to make the plan work, and GoW seems to recognize the importance of curtailing Lego. This city would be used to build an expedition to the other continent, then could be captured by GoW after it's above size 2, so the city would be returned to GoW control after Lux was finished using it to depart from this continent. What do you think?

Do we want to go through with it? I can build a settler in Imperial City and send to the coast. Which site should we give them if we do this?

Either 1 or 5?

	20-02-2003 07:03									#2
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I personally think its too late for Lux.

But if we get Felix for the temporary use of 1 settler, then thats OK.
I could not believe that Lux would agree to it.
And only if ND if ND agrees.

Lux would be so far behind, that their only chance of survival would be to become a vassel state to Lego.
This could only advantage Lego as they would have 2 civs working on techs at the same time.

I actually prefer to wipe Lux out and just be done with it.

If we give them a city, it must be demilitarised. No offensive units to be built (ie archers)

Regs

	20-02-2003 09:26									#3
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It won't let me vote from home, but I say wipe them out as well. I don't feel they could be any true competition to LegoLand at this point, and I highly doubt they would be honoring their end to gift us monotheism based on the past deals we have made with them.

Remove Trip from the game for not honoring his dealings

	20-02-2003 18:51									#4
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It let me vote from work, so don't worry about manually adjusting it in.

	20-02-2003 19:40									#5
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I say that we should let them live; giving them site 1. They would be a hinderance to Legoland, stopping them from becoming too powerful. They wouldn't take over Legoland, though, so Lux won't become powerful and war with us. They will not have the city site permanently, so they will not hinder our expansion. Also: they can feed us regular warriors for promotions. Can anyone say "great leader"??

	20-02-2003 20:32									#6
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I do believe they will make excellent clay pigeons. No matter how many times you attack barbarians with elite units you just don't get any Great Leaders.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 20-02-2003 at 20:44

	20-02-2003 20:36									#7
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I agree it is a good plan, I just don't believe they will uphold their end.

	20-02-2003 21:01									#8
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I would make 1 suggestion. Lets also make Lux agree to never bear arms against us. I know it is VERY unlikely but since legoland is building oriented and pacifist, they might help lux rise up just out of pity. I actually wonder if trip hasn't already talked to legoland about this. It would be horrible if one day our plans were foiled by lux.
Aggie

	21-02-2003 00:18									#9
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Sorry folks...

ND does not want them around. It will just piss off our new ally to the point of them pulling out of the new deal.

We don't get Iron. ND is pissed at us and WILL go through us to get to them. I am not sure if we can stand up to them.

If we do this, ND and GoW turn into minor players. RP takes over Middle-Bob and wins the game.

THIS DEAL CANNOT HAPPEN!

	21-02-2003 02:47									#10
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Then that is the final answer.

Good Bye Lux ...

	21-02-2003 06:03									#11
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From Darekill:

quote: O.K. as far as i'm concerned . As long as we get monotheism too and will get their capitol. Jason Farber schrieb: >Trip agreed he would abandon all of his cities for a >coastal one to build a ship and then depart for Lego's >continent. > >My team is willing to let them us a spot deep in our >area so as to not cost your team any land and if they >should backstab us, my team would be the only ones to >suffer damage. > >The advantages of this are; >1) The gaining of Monotheism for free once we enter >the Middle Ages, all we need do is research/acquire >Feudalism and Chivalry to gain our UU's. > >2) Competition for Legoland, Lego will no longer be >able to completely colonize their continent all on >their own, Lux will try to take some of it. > >I have very little doubt that Lego will most likely >destroy Lux, but we will have gained their departure >from our continent without the cost of troops (which >we can shift to the Roleplay war) and a Middle Age >Tech for free. > >Let me know if it is acceptible for my team to let Lux >build a boat on our shores in return for them >abandoning their cities.

	21-02-2003 06:27									#12
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Well then Ghengis that settles it. So as the egyptians used to say "let it be written, so let it be done"
Aggie

	21-02-2003 08:02									#13
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send a reply saying yes, we accept the offer. The only thing stopping us from doing the same deal to Lux has been ND. Now that they are in agreement, this is great!

	21-02-2003 08:09									#14
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Okay, my reply to Darekill:

quote: Good, here's the plan. We still maintain war against Lux, but Lux abandons their cities and we will for a fraction of a turn swap a coastal city for Felix (we are finishing a settler for this). The entire time they are building the boat we continue to be at war with them even though there is nothing left of the old Lux, Roleplay and everyone else will think we are in a drag out war with Lux and they are just very resourceful and lucky in their defense, thus causing Roleplay to let their guard down thinking there is no way we could prepare for war with them since we are so involved in a conflict with Lux. How's that sound? --- Darekill wrote: > O.K. as far as i'm concerned . As long as we get > monotheism too and will > get their capitol.

	21-02-2003 08:52									#15
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I dont think RP(or anyone) would believe us. We are better off just coming clean...

We should post something like this on the main board...

Lux has paid us (as mercs), and now fall under our temporary protection.

As part of the deal, we have also negotiated a temporary peace between Lux & ND.

Terms of our agreement with Lux are completely confidential.

Terms of our negotiated peace between ND & Lux also remain confidential.

Any leaks of any of our agreements renders our protection void, and Lux season opens again.

Regs

	21-02-2003 16:31									#16
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GF - Has the Lux deal been done ?

If not, here is some ideas....

Lux offered Felix this round 1600bc...I see that in the sav.
If we accept, and they accept, then Lux is down to their last city/capital.
ND will destroy this before we can get our settler into position, and Lux would be dead ?

What happens if Lux holds onto both cities ?
Their palace will bounce to Felix if ND takes their capital.
We have time to get our settler into place.
We gift our city to Lux
Lux removes their spearman guarding Felix, and we take Felix by invasion.
(Capitals dont autoraze even if they are pop1 right ?)

If capitals do raze ? then there is no way they can gift Felix to us ?


Secondly....
What is Lux doing with their units?
That worker should be sent to their capital and gifted to us for safe keeping.
We can gift it back afterwoods.
Same with their gold...gift us everything so they give nothing to ND.

If we take Felix..or if is gifted to us...what do they do with the defending spearman?
I suggest we let them keep it, and they can move it through our territory to their new home.
This way they can send it with their settler on the galley..(or their worker if they would prefer)

What will Lux do while they wait for Map-Making ?
We could require them to build warriors that we can use for great Leader hunting.
Or, we can insist they build a barracks or walls or something that wont be destroyed when we take the city back.
Remember..when they get their settler on the galley, they cant gift the city back, so we will need to invade it.
Or, do we tell them to build a wonder as a prebuild for a galley ?
I really want them off our continent ASAP.



And finally what I really want......
I want to see Lux put their settler onto a regular galley.
Shove off, and we take the city.
Then I want to see a barbarian gally appear, and sink their boat.
Lux survives a war against ND, GOW, but the barbarians finally defeat them

	21-02-2003 17:13									#17
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We would have to wait for either the culture to move out to size 2 or the pop, I believe, or even the capital would autoraze.

	21-02-2003 18:22									#18
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Too many questions, to little typing speed....

I did not accept Felix this turn as that was a trade for Trafalgar and I WILL NOT give up Trafalgar.

I do not believe any city that has culture autorazes, but am not 100% sure.

I will suggest the worker thing to Trip.

Here is the proposal I would like to sent to Lux:

quote: Proposed Treaty of Relocation: Lux will move its citizens to the Luxian Reservation in return for giving GoW the city of Felix (city for city swap). Lux will provide its warriors for "sport" for the GoW Horsemen and will continue to produce and send out warriors as feasible. Lux will build galleys as soon as possible and transport its settler(s) to the continent of Legoland to rebuild its empire. Once the galley(s) sail the Lux Reservation will continue to produce warriors for sport until Lux has founded its new capital site at which time GoW will attack the Reservation and cause the Lux palace to jump to the new city. In return GoW will gift Lux the techs it aquires until Lux enters the Middle Ages at which time Lux will gift GoW and ND Monotheism and all treatys will have been fulfilled.

It may need some work so feel free to discuss and suggest.

	21-02-2003 18:38									#19
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I know for a fact regular cities autoraze unless the borders have expanded the first time (10 culture points) even if they have 9 points it will raze. I am not sure if there is a special rule covering capitols though.

	21-02-2003 20:12									#20
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All cities MUST get to 10 culture or be at 2 pop not to autoraze. Thats why in warly wars i patiently wait 10 turns or find another target so a city can do one of the above.
Aggie

	21-02-2003 20:34									#21
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I am still against this. Even IF Lux follows through with this plan, they will just turn into a puppet of Lego. Like lego needs a puppet. All this for Monothesism? It is simple not worth it.

Lux could be used as a trade partner.

BS. If you look on the main forum, Lux and everybody else knows that our excuse for declaring war was a load of crap. Lux will not deal with us very kindly (if Lego even lets them).

	21-02-2003 22:06									#22
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I agree with donegeal. My protest never had anything to do with whether ND would let it happen or no. Wipe them out and focus on producing the Horsies to travel the road down to spain, not trying to enforce yet another treaty with Lux when they already dislike us and have broken a treaty in the past. They are going to SAY anything to save their butt right now, but I doubt they will come through with it in the end.


Despite the point. Seems this is no longer an option with ND now getting pissed at the continual razing by Lux.

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 22-02-2003 at 01:44

	22-02-2003 18:05									#23
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Agree.

(Deal Nazi voice)
No deal for Lux!

	23-02-2003 02:29									#24
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quote: By agreeing to this document, the Lux Invicta and Glory of War teams officially agree that: - The Glory of War team will offer a peace treaty and the city "Camp Cod" to the Lux Invicta team on the turn 1550 BC and will send the trade offer with a status of 'accepted'. The Lux Invicta team will also accept this deal on its 1550 BC turn, taking control of "Camp Cod." - Until the Glory of War team creates a new city (entitled "City #1" in this document), Lux Invicta will hold onto "Camp Cod," producing as many Warriors as possible during the time that the Lux Invicta team has control over "Camp Cod." These warriors will be moved onto unimproved grassland tiles within the Glory of War team's cultural area on the turn they are created. The Glory of War team is permitted to assume control over the Lux Invicta city "Fortress Felix" after "Camp Cod" has been given to the Lux Invicta team. - When City #1 is constructed by the Glory of War team, it will trade the city to Lux Invicta on that turn. The following turn, Lux Invicta will move all units out of Camp Cod and the Glory of War team will capture "Camp Cod" from the Lux Invicta team and subsequently offer peace after this trade has been accomplished. - During this period of time, the Lux Invicta team will have its science slider set at 0%. The Glory of War team will supply the Lux Invicta team of any technology it possesses, and is able to acquire during the duration of this contract's lifespan. When the Middle Age is reached, the Lux Invicta team will provide the technology "Monotheism" to the Glory of War team free of charge and with the status of "accepted". - The Lux Invicta team will then hold "City #1" for an undetermined period of time, until the quantity of 1 Settler, 1 Worker, 1 Spearman and 2 Galleys have been constructed in "City #1," and a Lux Invicta expedition has departed from the continent. Once the expedition has left, Lux Invicta will produce as many regular Warriors as possible in City 1 and move them to stand individually on surrounding grassland tiles. - Lux Invicta team will be considered a protectorate of the Glory of War team until their new city is established on the new continent. While a protectorate Lux Invicta is not allowed to conduct any binding treaties or negotiations with any other civs, all negotiations will be handled by the Glory of War team on Lux Invicta's behalf and Lux must post a notice of this status in the main PTW forum. During this time, the Glory of War team is obligated to defend the Lux Invicta team, its cities, units and resources from any form of aggression. - When the terms of this agreement have expired, the Glory of War team is permitted to recapture "City #1" from the Lux Invicta team, followed by a return to peace between the two teams after this exchange has taken place. - These terms, when agreed to by both teams, are furthermore non-negotiable, and both teams signing the document are obligated to carry out the terms by any means deemed necassary.

This document has been signed by the underfollowing
__________

Trip
BigFurryMonster

Lux Invicta

	23-02-2003 02:36									#25
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I got that PM from Trip. I assume that we have not officially agreed to it, or else we will not be able to destroy Lux. They will be done next turn, right? If this is the case, we can try and delay.

	23-02-2003 03:51									#26
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Don't delay, just say "no".

	23-02-2003 04:56									#27
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They had their chance, to quote nancy reagan "just say no to trip".
Aggie

	23-02-2003 06:16									#28
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No deal for Lux.

Does this mean we should attack Felix if the ND swordsman can't take it?

	23-02-2003 06:22									#29
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Yep - Just tell Lux we cant work any deal with ND that will allow them to live.

We are going to start attacking their cities as we would rather rather not let ND have them.

Thus, the bad guy is ND, and not us.

	23-02-2003 06:26									#30
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Here's a thought.

Can we PM ND, and tell them that our dealings with Lux have fallen through.
Would they consider waiting 10? turns for Felix to get enough culture so that it wont autoraze?

We take the city, and give all the gold to ND