20-02-2003 08:39									#1
	Close to 12-stack target size. Plans of troop movements Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

From the last game save, we are very close to being in a position to have the attack force we are planning.

I think, if we can... we should try to schedule this new chat soon... Perhaps Friday 22:30GMT if that is ok with the new President.

Here is the troop movement patterns suggested for creating the stack.

H-Town will be the assembling point.

In one turn, the 5 stack can move, using the river, into H-Town to join the 4 units already there.

There is a northern 2 stack, that will take 2 turns to reach H-Town.

Yet another 2 stack, travelling from Pedrunnia can reach H-Town in 3 turns, at the time the 11 units (+1 rushed) would be departing.

The 5+4+2 stacks consist of 6 Hoplites and 5 Archers. An archer could be rushed to join and form a 6H/6A stack. The most potent stack that we could create.

The northern warrior scout unit should travel due north to attempt to draw units away from our cities.

After the attack stack departs H-Town and Pressburg should continue to regarrison and cooperatively defend each other.

	20-02-2003 08:42									#2
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Figure 1

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	20-02-2003 08:45									#3
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Since the northern warrior scout is unable to scout and or probe Graz defences, we should use another scout to do so.

I suggest using the warrior stationed in Pedrunnia, using the river route (the same route by which an attack on our core empire would travel along)

Attachment: plan2.png
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	20-02-2003 08:51									#4
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The final piece of the jigsaw is to reinforce Pedrunnia defences and to deal with a possible barbarian threat in the east.

We should send 1H/1A to Pedrunnia, from Colonia Locuta. This will suppliment the capitals defences.

We should attack the Barbarian Catapault, to prevent it from joining with the hoplite and possibly other barbarian forces and becoming a more serious threat, whilst we can.

I'd suggest a Hoplite, warrior and archer, to be sure.

Attachment: plan3.png
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	20-02-2003 14:57									#5
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All looks good MrBaggins. I guess the german catapult in the east near Mapfipolis was killed by the barb catapult? Seems i missed alot of fun last night
What defensive units will be left in our cities once that stack and scout unit are assembled at/near H town?

	20-02-2003 16:15									#6
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I sure wanted to be there. Seems like thing asr getting hot aroud the battlefields and the next MoD will have a lot to do

But i propose some changes
I am a bit too worry with that size four army.
I believe we should kill them first to them attack Graz.

And while we setting our army, the lonely warrior at west should keep an eye on that army intead of exploring the north!

I liked what you proposed in the three East cities. That will leave 4 units in Pedrunnia, 2 units in Colonia Locuta, 4 in mapfipolis. And i am ok with that.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 20-02-2003 at 16:29

	20-02-2003 16:32									#7
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The attack to the barbarian catapult shall be done with 3 units from mapfipolis and an attack to the hoplite should never happen. Its an attack an attack and return mission!

An attack to Graz should only happen if we have at least 3 units defending (4 is the best) H Town and Mapfipolis each!

	20-02-2003 19:35									#8
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3 in Pressburg, 2 in H-Town.

I am recommending that we adopt a "wait and see", and a "as needs demand" policy with additional rushing and or using the 12 stack to attack the 4.

The 4 stack has been chasing the single warrior.

If it continues to do so for a turn or two it gives us extra time to prepare.

The 4 stack is 4 turns from an attack on H-Town and 5 from an attack on Pressburg.

Some brisk development and rushing at 2 turns, if its obviously needed, should satisfy our requirements.

If the 4 stack makes a beeline for either city, then we'll be able to easily have 4 defenders in Pressburg and 3 maybe 4 in H-Town.

We also have an option on attacking with the 12 stack... but we won't know until the couple of turns get played.

	20-02-2003 20:24									#9
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Basically that sounds like a sound plan, we want take out Graz ASAP, but let's not forget there are some Barbs (as well as Austrians) in the H Town area - with only 2 units defending the city, that's a tad risky. Do we want to take that risk?

	20-02-2003 21:10									#10
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There will be 9 units in Graz this turn.

	20-02-2003 21:39									#11
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the 2 in H-Town is only a 'worst case scenario' on the turn that the 12 stack leaves... if there are closeby 'issues' then we'll obviously have a force to take care of those.

	20-02-2003 21:48									#12
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We shouldnt leave less than 3 units at all. Four would be the perfect.

We cant risk such a city. Probably swap all those dangerous units first would be the best. Making a rotation of damaged among H Town and the Army. Alway leaving the damaged unit in H Town

	20-02-2003 21:49									#13
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins I think, if we can... we should try to schedule this new chat soon... Perhaps Friday 22:30GMT if that is ok with the new President.

Well actual I thought of scheduling it at Saturday 20:30GMT, to aviod rushing, but I think now after reading the turn chat transcript that Friday will be ok as well, but I prefer an hour earlier so 21:30 would be OK. Well I should rather the discussion to the people about it in the right thread.

quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn But i propose some changes I am a bit too worry with that size four army. I believe we should kill them first to them attack Graz.

Yeah it would be better if the size four army would be killed before now, but unfortunatly I don't see an alternative for moving our size 5 stack near Pressburg and H Tower back to one of these cities. I don't think it would be good to use it to attack the Barbarian size 2 stack, the health of its units is not good, one Hoplite is badly damaged and won't survive the next hit probably. One Archer and one Hoplite have on half health, so it would be better to move that army to H Tower first, if the goal is to bring this stack as soon as possible into a healing base. If you thinl it is better to defend Pressburg better, it has right now only a garrision of two then send the stack to Pressburg that will take one more turn as we don't have the river bonus there.

Actual I think MrBaggins' idea is good to wait and see at least for the next turn it is the best idea to bring the size 5 stack to H Town, we could replace there the wounded units or could from the bigger stack. But not use the four units there as there are to less for an attck army.

quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn And while we setting our army, the lonely warrior at west should keep an eye on that army intead of exploring the north!

I am rather afraid that this loonely unit could be killed by the Barbarians or by the Austrians, of course it would be better to have this unit in Pressburg or H Town right now. It should better moved North or North-West, as it is now wounded and on these tile no eneymy unit in our vision range could attack it.

quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn The attack to the barbarian catapult shall be done with 3 units from mapfipolis and an attack to the hoplite should never happen. Its an attack an attack and return mission!

I agree here, we shouldn't sacrify a unit as long as it is not necessary.

quote: Originally posted by Locutus Do we want to take that risk?

That is a good question, we are currently building one archer in Pressburg taht is finished in two turns and then the city will reach size 3, too. So in another 4 or 5 additional turns we would have two more defenders there.In H Town we need for a warrior, archer or hoplite only 3 turns for each, so in 6 turns we will have to additional units there two.

-Martin

	20-02-2003 21:54									#14
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After the attack on Graz, it's likely that we won't have more than 2-3 units left in that city (if not less - we may even loose the battle), so that would make us very vulnerable if H Town and Pressburg (when are we gonna rename that city?) also only have 2-3 units to defend them.

In that sense it would be wise to clean out the area first and build at least 4-6 more units to defend the area. But then again, if we do that we give the Austrians too much time to dig in at Graz. Touch decision, this...

	20-02-2003 22:00									#15
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If we take huge casualties taking Graz, then we can reinforce using Pedrunnian troops: we will have already 'cleared' the path along the northern river, and southern river, and will be sending the reinforcements along the southern river: the most likely approach, and the direction that troops might approach Pedrunnia, so it will have some 'protection' whilst its defences are reconstituted.

	20-02-2003 22:04									#16
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Crosspost. With Martin's reasoning, it sounds like attacking in 5-6 turns would be relatively risk-free.

If we create our 12 stack immediately south of H Town, we could have it ready in 3 turns. If we attack Graz from the Forest (+25% defensive bonus, which applies to attacking armies as well), it would take us 3 more turns before the actual assault on Graz could take place. That sure sounds like a good plan to me...

Whether it's Friday or Saturday, I can't be there before 21:30 (but that's off topic).

	20-02-2003 22:09									#17
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21:30 is ok for me too...

I think if we can swing Friday it'll be better. It will be another short in turns, long in talk game I fear... but at least we have a direction.

Graz is just *THAT* important... as is not losing other cities, or taking massive casualties... so I'm not TERRIBLY worried that the game won't progress massively. It'll get moving better the more defenders we have, since they'll be less 'juggling' of defence.

MrBaggins

	20-02-2003 22:10									#18
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I also think its impossible to really plan the exact attack square that we'd use to attack Graz, at this point. Tactical needs will become clear in 4 turns.

MrBaggins

	20-02-2003 22:22									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus ...Pressburg (when are we gonna rename that city?)...

Well from the poll right now about the fifth city name we won't rename it, unfortunatly the poll is still open and Pedrunn did not set a time for its closing or said when the outcome is accepted or whatever. But actual Ben didn't want his name for this city and I don't think that we should rename conquered cities, either. However the next city created by a settler will get his name.

So what the above example shows me is that a city name poll need an time to expire.

If I remeber correctly the name change from Pedrunn to Pedrunnia isn't polled, yet. As the constition states: "(e) The President is responsible for the naming of all new cities of the empire regardless of how the cities were created or assimilated. A name has to be evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (Article IV, Subsection 3-II) before a city is named."

So even such a small change is a new name and must be therefore evaluated.

-Martin

	20-02-2003 22:37									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann So what the above example shows me is that a city name poll need an time to expire.

Not really. I have decided that the name wasnt going to change. Since not only the people didnt want but the hounored too!

And as you can see in my orders for last game chat I was convinced that conquered cities shouldnt be renamed.

quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann So even such a small change is a new name and must be therefore evaluated.

All i heard in the last days was that we were spending to much time in name choosing so i decide not to poll about plus the first post of that poll clearly states that we could use a variant for the name.

	20-02-2003 22:47									#21
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*coughs* can we stay on topic?

	21-02-2003 03:14									#22
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins *coughs* can we stay on topic?

Well if you have something on topic. Actual there is some stuff that should not get a new threads like the city naming issure as Pedrunn already noted. Well actual I think the city name issure needs a little bit more care, but as it had to be done Pedrunn was in office and he thinks that everything is ok with that so I leave it as it is now. So that is everything to the past city naming, the only thing that is missing is the close of all these polls. Well that is off topic again but I think that should be all about the issure now.

For everyone else the Turn Chat is now moved out of this thread.

-Martin