20-02-2003 10:22									#1
	Should I take Calculus II? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I am sorry to make another thread on this so soon, but I will be registering for classes tommorow. Based on some of the advice I got on that thread, and from the professors I know here, I probably won't ever try for grad school in econ(well not PHD anyway I may try for a MA in econ some day in the future). But I am not quite sure what I want to do in the future, but probably nothing too math intensive because I really despise Math. Like I said earlier, I have my math requirement fufilled and 4 credits for Calc I based on my placement score on my calculus.

The thing is though, I am worried it might look bad on my transcript if I graduate without taking any math courses here at all besides 1 statistics course. Would it? How much better would my transcript look if I suffered the pain and struggled through Calculus II? Or would it not make any real difference if I took the course or not?

I figured this would be a good place to ask since I know a good number of you are in business(some such as Ming/Rah even seem to know about hiring employees), academia, or are experienced in looking for jobs.

Thanks.

	20-02-2003 10:31									#2
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Well, I am a CS major, so I personally had to go through Calc 2, 3 and beyond...

Let me tell you this: IMO, Calc 2 is the worst math course one could ever take. Calc 3 is about the same difficulty level as Calc 1 (and some argue that it's actually easier) - heck, I went far enough as to have fun in it... Imagine. But Calc 2 is just a killer machine.

So, if you despise math, I suggest you don't struggle. After all, a C or a D on a transcript would look worse than no Calc at all, I think. Instead take some other kind of math - logics / discreet (lots of applications in econ), combinatorics, that kind of stuff. Because if you really despise math, you don't want to involve yourself in linear algebra (which is basically the meat and potatoes of Calc 2).

Just my $.02 worth.

(Though note that I haven't seen your previous thread, so I might be reiterating some points that you already went through.)

	20-02-2003 10:32									#3
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The only thing an employer cares about is making sure you went to the school you said you did and got the degree you said you did. I've never had one actually look at the classes I took on my transcript.

Secondly, I believe the background check that most employers do now covers degree verification:

http://www.infolinkscreening.com/In...hes.aspx#EduVer

I'd say screw Calculus 2 and take something fun. Bone some chicks like Infatplayeration.

	20-02-2003 10:35									#4
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What the heck is in Calc II?

	20-02-2003 10:39									#5
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"After all, a C or a D on a transcript would look worse than no Calc at all, I think. "

Well I got a B in my Calculus class in high school...

"The only thing an employer cares about is making sure you went to the school you said you did and got the degree you said you did. I've never had one actually look at the classes I took on my transcript."

Really? I have been told it does look better if you take a more rigorous courseload.

	20-02-2003 10:41									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger What the heck is in Calc II?

It's usually mostly about integrals.

	20-02-2003 10:42									#7
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quote: The only thing an employer cares about is making sure you went to the school you said you did and got the degree you said you did. I've never had one actually look at the classes I took on my transcript.

While applying for summer jobs, two of the applications required I send them a university transcript as well as my resume & cover letter. Most didn't, though.

	20-02-2003 10:47									#8
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I really don't think they care how many hours you took or what you took. If you took a class related to the job, that's something you can bring up in the interview. (You can speak the lingo at the very least to show your knowledge).

However, instead of burning yourself out with 18 hour semesters taking hard classes, I'd say spend your energy trying to get in at LEAST 1 internship if you can. (Summer internships when you don't have any classes are the best).

An internship related to your field will beat a transcript hands down every time.

	20-02-2003 11:02									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It's usually mostly about integrals.

Simple integrals I take it? Pretty easy then.

	20-02-2003 11:04									#10
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Only if you absolutely have to.

	20-02-2003 11:07									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Only if you absolutely have to.

Whuz

	20-02-2003 11:08									#12
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Proud of it.

	20-02-2003 11:16									#13
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If you don't want to deal with the math, you probably shoudn't go into economics. IMO, real economics is about mathematical modelling, not spouting silly generalizations about massively nonlinear systems. I don't how it's possible to have any understanding at all about econ without knowing the material in calc 2, which is usually some integration and elementary analysis.

	20-02-2003 11:21									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo If you don't want to deal with the math, you probably shoudn't go into economics. IMO, real economics is about mathematical modelling, not spouting silly generalizations about massively nonlinear systems. I don't how it's possible to have any understanding at all about econ without knowing the material in calc 2, which is usually some integration and elementary analysis.

Well your opinion about what real economics is doesn't matter as much as the people who design the BA and MA programs in Econ and deciding how much math you need to take, nor does it matter as much as the people who give econ grads an average of $70,000 a year according to the person in the last thread.

	20-02-2003 11:23									#15
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I have a degree in Economics, and believe me, you can blow off Calc II. If you ever need it, you can learn it later. With econ, if an employer want math, they want a lot of math. If they don't want math, they probably won't even check your transcripts.

	20-02-2003 11:23									#16
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Econ grads making an average of $70K right out of school? Is this a joke or something?

	20-02-2003 11:27									#17
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quote: Well your opinion about what real economics is doesn't matter as much as the people who design the BA and MA programs in Econ and deciding how much math you need to take, nor does it matter as much as the people who give econ grads an average of $70,000 a year according to the person in the last thread.

From a perspective of jobs or diplomas, a good mathematical background probably doesn't matter too much (although I'd be suprised if any decent grad school would let you get away with taking no math). From a perspective of any real understanding, it's vital.

BTW, barring the first two Econ courses at UT (intro micro and macro), calc 2 is a prerequisite.

	20-02-2003 11:30									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Econ grads making an average of $70K right out of school? Is this a joke or something?

From my experience, this is not generally the case.

And from the
Princeton review, which also matches my experience:

# of people in profession: 72,000
Average hours per week: 40
Average starting salary: $28,500
Average salary after 5 years: $55,000
Average salary after 10 to 15 years: $75,000

	20-02-2003 11:30									#19
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Maybe you should ask Calc II?

	20-02-2003 11:31									#20
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derivatives

integrals

thats all i have to say about that

	20-02-2003 11:40									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Econ grads making an average of $70K right out of school? Is this a joke or something?

No, it's because most of them go to law school or some other postgraduate.

	20-02-2003 11:41									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Static23 From my experience, this is not generally the case. And from the Princeton review, which also matches my experience: # of people in profession: 72,000 Average hours per week: 40 Average starting salary: $28,500 Average salary after 5 years: $55,000 Average salary after 10 to 15 years: $75,000

Okay, that makes more sense.

	20-02-2003 11:43									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Static23 From my experience, this is not generally the case. And from the Princeton review, which also matches my experience: # of people in profession: 72,000 Average hours per week: 40 Average starting salary: $28,500 Average salary after 5 years: $55,000 Average salary after 10 to 15 years: $75,000

I was talking about an overall average, including people with work experience.

	20-02-2003 11:44									#24
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An econ degree is just a ticket into an entry-level economics related job. My roommate from college went to work for Federal Reserve after graduation, probably the biggest employer of economists in the U.S., and basically filed paperwork in the check-clearing department when he started.

Most of the real training takes place on the job, and every employer knows this about new college graduates with bachelors degrees. It's a little different coming out of school with a Masters or a PhD. An employer will expect more of you.

	20-02-2003 11:44									#25
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I wouldn't take it if it's not required. If it isn't a required course no one will look at it.

	20-02-2003 12:32									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Static23 I have a degree in Economics, and believe me, you can blow off Calc II. If you ever need it, you can learn it later. With econ, if an employer want math, they want a lot of math. If they don't want math, they probably won't even check your transcripts.

Ok. So you also think they won't care if you have a BA instead of a BS?


"From a perspective of any real understanding, it's vital."

Says Ramo who isn't even in the field. I trust the departments that award diplomas more then you do, and if Calc II was nessecary for any real understanding of Economics they wouldn't have a degree where you don't need it.

	20-02-2003 12:35									#27
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Degrees don't imply understanding.

	20-02-2003 12:38									#28
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It doesn't really matter either way if all you're looking for is a degree and a job.

	20-02-2003 12:43									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Degrees don't imply understanding.

Just because you know alot about certain things doesn't mean you can assume you know everything. You are not in the field of economics at all, you probably have not taken many upper level economics courses if any. You are not in a qualified position to judge how well you can understand economics without Calculus II. Now if Adam Smith(poly poster) were to make a judgement on how well you can understand econ without Calc II, he is actually a PhD so I would be more inclined to listen to him.

	20-02-2003 12:55									#30
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A little touchy, aren't we? I'm just giving my opinion, based on my experience. You can take it or leave it.

No, I haven't taken any upper division econ classes, and am not very well versed in economics. But I know a fair amount about math. And I can tell you with certainty that it isn't easy to model a system as massive and nonlinear as an economy very well (look at how badly economic models predict reality). You need advanced math to do anywhere near a competent job. Classes like calc 2 are just the beginning in what you'd need to know.