20-02-2003 13:21									#1
	US officials tell Israel that Syria, Persia will be next middle-east targets Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

(excerpt from http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/263923.html)

U.S. official says Syria, Iran will be dealt with after Iraq war
U.S. Undersecretary of State John Bolton said in meetings with Israeli officials on Monday that he has no doubt America will attack Iraq, and that it will be necessary to deal with threats from Syria, Iran and North Korea afterwards.

Bolton, who is undersecretary for arms control and international security, is in Israel for meetings about preventing the spread of weapons of mass destruction.

In a meeting with Bolton on Monday, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said that Israel is concerned about the security threat posed by Iran. It's important to deal with Iran even while American attention is turned toward Iraq, Sharon said.

Bolton also met with Foreign Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Housing and Construction Minister Natan Sharansky.



---------------------------------

Are America's future plans beginning to unfold? Will the world stand for any future aggression?

	20-02-2003 13:28									#2
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It's a pretty good strategy if you think about it. No Middle Eastern country would give us full acsess to serve as a base for whatever our troops would like. However, Kuwait hates Iraq enough that we will be able use Kuwait as a base and get into Iraq, and then Iraq can be set up as a base of operations under US occupation. And Iraq is in a nice central location adjacent to a lot of other middle eastern countries, making it much easier to use Iraq as a base.

"Will the world stand for any future aggression?"

Hopefully, since Syria and Iran both support terrorism. We have a very valid causus belli against both of those countries. We are allied with Israel, which is suffering agression from Hezbollah, which is being funded by Syria and Iran. Although if we are lucky bloodshed might not be nessecary- Syria and Iran might agree to stop funding terrorists if we were massing forces on their border in US Occupied Iraq.

	20-02-2003 13:46									#3
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Heck, come to think of it, getting rid of Iran's fundamentalists is a good idea. Most of the Iranian people support liberal democracy and consistently have elected a moderate president(who sadly has no power) by massive margins. In Iran it may be relatively easy to install our a democratic, Pro-Western government that would not be a terrorist threat.

	20-02-2003 13:47									#4
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So are you saying that you support an invasion of Persia?

	20-02-2003 13:53									#5
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I noticed the article didn't quote any official American sources so it may be that this is just wishful thinking by a pro-Israeli newspaper.

	20-02-2003 13:55									#6
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if the us attacks every country they like to -just with the excuse that the government is not "democratic", they finally prove that they don't give a **** on other's souvereignity. You can see the damage the UN as well as international treaties will get from that.

	20-02-2003 13:55									#7
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Oerdin: US undersecretary of State John Bolton.

	20-02-2003 13:59									#8
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If true, these would be idiotic policies, particularly wrt Iran. Iran's the state that has been making the greatest strides towards democracy in the region.

	20-02-2003 14:01									#9
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"it will be necessary to deal with threats from Syria, Iran and North Korea"

He did not say in which way. Waving a bunch of pom-poms at Kim could also be considered a way of dealing with NK.

	20-02-2003 14:02									#10
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Oerdin: US undersecretary of State John Bolton.

I was just saying it was a paraphrase and not a direct quote. Sometimes paraphrases of "off the record" things are right but a lot of the time they're not.

	20-02-2003 14:04									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I was just saying it was a paraphrase and not a direct quote. Sometimes paraphrases of "off the record" things are right but a lot of the time they're not.

Oh okay, fair point.

	20-02-2003 14:05									#12
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"So are you saying that you support an invasion of Persia?"

We'll have to see how things play out first but liberating Iran from it's opressive government would definitely be nice.

"Iran's the state that has been making the greatest strides towards democracy in the region."

The Ayatollahs still have absolute power in Iran and I doubt they will ever give it up without bloodshed.

	20-02-2003 14:13									#13
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Ayatollahs? Khamenei cloned himself or something?

The Mullahs don't have absolute power. President Khatami has power. Not much, mind you, but some. The reform movement has been making great strides these past decades. Iranian society is much more free than 20 years ago. The reform movement was even on the verge of scoring a major victory over the Mullahs a while back, perhaps leading to a Democratic revolution. There's nothing saying that the situation couldn't arise again if Khatami et al. play their cards right. Shrub's incompetent diplomacy wrt Iran no doubt set the movement back a few years, but it isn't totally undermined.

	20-02-2003 14:18									#14
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"Ayatollahs? Khamenei cloned himself or something? "

It's late.

"The Mullahs don't have absolute power. President Khatami has power. Not much, mind you, but some. The reform movement was even on the verge of scoring a major victory over the Mullahs a while back, perhaps leading to a Democratic revolution."

Khatami has little power, particularly in military matter and matter of foreign policy. Whatever the case, he doesn't have enough influence to stop Iran from financing Hezbollah. Whatever power Khatami gets will be decided by the fundamentalists, who control the army. The Iranians have had a long time to start launching rebel movements against the government, it hasn't happened. External force would be an excellent way of de-fundamentalizing Iran.

	20-02-2003 14:26									#15
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It's already happening. Compare Iran today from 20 years ago and tell me there haven't been huge, huge improvements in liberties. External force would only hurt the situation, particularly given the bearer of this force. War is counterproductive and shortsighted.

Khatami has proven to be politically astute. I wouldn't be suprised if there's democracy in Iran within the next decade or two.

The Economist had a great overview of the reform movement in one of their recent issues, BTW. I highly recommend it.

	20-02-2003 14:33									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi It's a pretty good strategy if you think about it.

It is also a castle in the sky strategy if you think about it. Who is going to pay for this? You?

The interesting thing is, BD, why didn't you mention Saudi Arabia as one of the countries that are supporting terrorism? I have also noticed that you failed to mention Israel's state-sponsored terrorism against the Palestinians.

Large gaping holes.

	20-02-2003 14:59									#17
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Please attack them all, attack the whole middle east, don't go trought the UN, be as harsh as possible to every nation that is againsts it. And don't forget, attack north korea without the permission of China, offend south Korea in the while. .

Force the UK and europe to join you and let Blair and all pro US governments lose as much popularity as possible so that anti war parties like the liberal democrats in the UK win the next elections. Then will europe be finally united !

Last edited by kolpo on 20-02-2003 at 15:04

	20-02-2003 15:28									#18
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The article mentioned nothing about the US going to war with Syria or Persia. There are many ways to "deal with" a threat short of war...

	20-02-2003 15:44									#19
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hmm...I hope Bush knows that, too

	20-02-2003 16:35									#20
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USA! USA! USA!

	20-02-2003 16:56									#21
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I agree that external western military force would be just about the worst conceivable idea for encouraging democratic reform in Iran. Western military aggression would be a godsend to the mullahs, who could declare martial law and crack down on any reformers by identifying them with "The Great Satan".

It would also be yet another great way to galvanize Arab rage towards the US (not that the current administration seems to care).

One of the most powerful engines behind reform is Iran's demographics. Something like 50% of the populatoin is age 16 or younger. They are making progress - the hardliners ain't getting any younger, while the youthful reformers steadily grow in number.

	20-02-2003 17:24									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Although if we are lucky bloodshed might not be nessecary- Syria and Iran might agree to stop funding terrorists if we were massing forces on their border in US Occupied Iraq.

Exactly: this does not mean we would invade Syria or Iran. What it would mean is that we could point to Iraq and instill fear. They'll know we mean business, and they'd most likely hand over every last terrorist's head on a platter.

That's Bush's reason #254 for going to war with Iraq: to let people know we aren't f*cking around.

	20-02-2003 18:02									#23
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Playing right into OBL's hands... good job Bush

	20-02-2003 19:04									#24
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I'm with mindseye on this one. There have been great strides in Iran, even if they have further to go, external force could only cause movement in the wrong direction.

	20-02-2003 19:09									#25
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"Persia"

	20-02-2003 19:30									#26
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quote: It would also be yet another great way to galvanize Arab rage towards the US (not that the current administration seems to care).

Well we could invade Saudi Arabia, and turn the holy cities into Disneyland theme parks, thus pissing off Muslims worldwide.

I figure if you're gonna go, might as well go all the way.

	20-02-2003 19:40									#27
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Shi seems to be forgetting what happened the last time the U.S.A. propped up a government in Iran...

	20-02-2003 19:44									#28
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I'd choose the Shah over the Islamic Republic every day.

	20-02-2003 20:00									#29
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I think the Israeli press needs to keep its head down and not misinterpret US messages.

One of the most powerful engines behind reform is Iran's demographics. Something like 50% of the populatoin is age 16 or younger. They are making progress - the hardliners ain't getting any younger, while the youthful reformers steadily grow in number.

More like 35%. But look at Iraq for a glimpse at the big game going on. At least 45% are 16 or younger...

	20-02-2003 20:06									#30
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quote: I think the Israeli press needs to keep its head down and not misinterpret US messages.

don't go all Shirac on us.