21-02-2003 04:10									#1
	Turn 2 - what to do with our worker? Got spare money?

The crucial question for the second turn is:

Do we pop the hut with our Worker immediately or do we road the game forest tile first, popping the hut only then?

There is a BONUS grassland under the hut, thus roading the game forest first, popping the hut afterwards, followed by mining & roading the bonus grassland on the ex-hut tile will waste not a single turn of our Worker's time.

There is only one drawback: to make sure we get no barbarians from the hut, we must have no military units. That means delaying the production of our first warrior by one turn (by working less shield-productive city tiles).

OTOH, if we pop immediately, then return to the game forest and road, we will waste two turns of our Worker's time (basically means giving up 4 gold), while being able to produce our warrior in four turns.

Three options included - if you vote for the "neither of these", specify your suggestion in a post, please.

	21-02-2003 04:26									#2
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Road, then move it. A 2/2/2 or 2/2/1 tile is very useful, two is even better...

	21-02-2003 04:26									#3
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I choose option one; though I would road, THEN mine the grassland. We want that tech lead don't we?

	21-02-2003 04:29									#4
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If we road now, the plan becomes:

1 move
2 road forest/game
3 road forest/game
4 road forest/game
5 *pop*
6 mine
7 mine
8 mine
9 road
10 road

Then Apolyton will grow, expand its borders and use this already "complete" tile to work. Perfect.

We'll need to work 2 turns of grassland instead of Game to delay the warrior.

	21-02-2003 04:50									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Road now; the one turn delay on the warrior is acceptable loss, especially with the plan BFM just laid out.

	21-02-2003 05:03									#6
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We do NOT want to pop that hut until we're sure everyone has founded their first city. If we do, we miss our chance of getting a settler from it.

Nathan

Last edited by nbarclay on 21-02-2003 at 05:25

	21-02-2003 05:48									#7
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Assuming Nathan is correct about the impossibility of getting a Settler if we're ahead in pop (I think I heard that somewhere myself...), we should not pop the Hut immediately.

This is not a big problem, since it is already better to road the Game tile right now. By the time we get around to popping it with our Settler (3 turns from now), we can expect every other team to have founded their first city.

BigFurryMonster's, your queue looks fine. However, you're wrong about one thing: our capital will not work the improved Bonus Grassland the turn it grows, since growth happens before border expansion in the turn order. So we'll lose a Shield and a Commerce that turn.


Dominae

	21-02-2003 05:51									#8
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I'm voting with bigfurrymonster's plan

	21-02-2003 05:55									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Assuming Nathan is correct about the impossibility of getting a Settler if we're ahead in pop (I think I heard that somewhere myself...), we should not pop the Hut immediately.

According to someone from Firaxis (I'm almost positive it was Soren), the rule is that you can't get a settler if you're above the average number of cities. Until everyone founds a city, one city is above the average number.

Nathan

	21-02-2003 06:05									#10
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Should have read BFM's post. IMHO, delaying the warrior one turn is fine. Yeah, so I rescind my earlier position on popping immediately.

Now if only I could move my vote into the right column.

	21-02-2003 06:10									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

I would rather delay the warrior one turn than waste additional worker moves.

	21-02-2003 06:43									#12
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Before I vote for roading, I want to ensure that when we pop the hut, there will be no barbarian.

We can delay the warrior production by 1 turn, so we will not have an army. No problem with that.

But some other civilisation must have produce a warrior by then. I don't really read the rule book. Can anyone tell me that we will definitely not pop a barbarian when someone else has an army ?

	21-02-2003 08:13									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

I see no inconvenience in delaying the warrior. Road and mine. Gotta get those bonus grasslands mined ASAP.

	21-02-2003 08:36									#14
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does anyone want to run a test on that? It would involve hotseat of course. make sure there are two civs on the continent. one produces the warrior. The other doesn't and pops a hut.

It could be difficult to recreate similar conditions though.

	21-02-2003 08:42									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Using the editor, it wouldn't really be that difficult, but I don't really have time for it at the moment.

	21-02-2003 09:58									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

well, we still have a couple of days. If no one does it by the weekend, I'll try it.

	21-02-2003 13:53									#17
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hi ,

we should not wait , pop it , ..... once you pop , you cant stop , .....

no , why should we wait , ....

pop it

have a nice day

	21-02-2003 14:49									#18
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Good point, Rush! Master Zen - will you look into it?

	21-02-2003 18:11									#19
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Just my 2 cents: We don't need to waste the worker movement to pop the hut. It will get popped in 10 turns with the border expansion.

	21-02-2003 18:19									#20
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quote: Originally posted by oliverfa Just my 2 cents: We don't need to waste the worker movement to pop the hut. It will get popped in 10 turns with the border expansion.

The problem is we could get angry barbarians from it that way (since we would already have military units). They might mess up with our plans heavily.

	21-02-2003 18:58									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by oliverfa Just my 2 cents: We don't need to waste the worker movement to pop the hut. It will get popped in 10 turns with the border expansion.

Want to see where this leads? Look up this link:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...845#post1653845

	21-02-2003 20:35									#22
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Definately road now and pop the hut next.

Yes, while there we ought to road that tile and because it's a shield, mine it while there.

We should then have the worker road out to the desert luxary.

	21-02-2003 21:00									#23
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Do we really need that luxury now? Our cities will not grow beyond size 3 for a while, and one warrior should be enough to keep the population happy.

Better improve tiles and/or build a road to the 2nd city location.

	22-02-2003 05:52									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

As to popping with the worker: as said before here 2 times by me, I thought that it was a militar unit on the continent that triggered thre relase of barbs from huts. If someone else builds a warrior, we shouldn't pop the hut with our worker undefended.

Please test this before delaying the warrior!

DeepO

	22-02-2003 07:25									#25
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DeepO, I'm positive of it. I recall it being posted by a Firaxian a long time ago, but I cannot find the thread.

On the first night, I confused myslef that it was before our civ had a city. That is not the case and I knew it as I awoke the next day. Vlad Antlerkov confirmed it is military units of our civ, but rest assured, I will confirm it before I play the turn tonight. It is a pretty simple scenario to set up, after all.

	22-02-2003 09:17									#26
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Ok, tested it.

Under the exact conditions shown on the map and with another civ in possesion of warriors, I moved my worker into a goody hut (no military units for me) and in 30 tries, not once did barbarians appear.

So I guess it's pretty safe to grab that hut after we road the game.

	22-02-2003 09:19									#27
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EDIT: accidental double post. I just wanted to say Preserve Random Seed was off.