22-02-2003 01:14									#1
	Crazy Bug: Infinite Shield Production Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

1. Get a civilization into War-Time Mobilization.

2. Zoom to a city that's producing a military unit. Note its shield production.

3. Change city's production to something that isn't a military unit (a worker works.)

4. Click on each of city's worked tiles, to turn all the laborers into specialists.

5. Notice that with no laborers, the city is still producing some shields. That isn't right...

6. Change production back to a military unit.

7. Reassign all the laborers to tiles (clicking on the city tile works.)

8. Notice that city is generating more shields than it was in step 2!

Repeat steps 3-8 as desired and city can have production of shields as high as you want! These shields are real; they will all be credited during the city build step of the turn. This state lasts until something causes the game to recalculate the city's production from zero; usually, changing the size of the city's population triggers this.

You can reverse the steps to restore the city's shield production to normal (switch to Wealth, assign the laborers, switch to unit, unassign them.)

The bug is actually that the game doesn't recalculate a city's shield production total when changing between a military unit and something else while in Mobilization. Subtracting shields from the total under normal production, then adding them during war-time production, causes a net increase.

I've confirmed this in Civ3 1.29f and PTW 1.14f. How in the world hasn't this been known? Does NOBODY ever use War-Time Mobilization?

Screenshot attached.

Attachment: shield-bug.jpg
This has been downloaded 471 time(s).

	22-02-2003 01:23									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That appears to be a pretty nasty bug! Thanks for sharing it (and you should report the bug to Firaxis via their email bug report instructions, located HERE.)

Note that they specifically don't want saved games sent in and provide clear report instructions -- I've used it once before and got a quick reply (and the bug was subsequently fixed!).

Catt

	22-02-2003 01:27									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

This is definately a bug that requires a fix as soon as possible!

	22-02-2003 01:40									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

wonder if that works in MP

	22-02-2003 01:42									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks for the heads-up T-Hawk...I've posted a link to this thread on the PTW Democratic game Forum...I wonder how we (in the PTW Diplo game) are going to handle this bit of information.

	22-02-2003 01:43									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by ceroomaster wonder if that works in MP

That's what worries me. I can't see why it wouldn't work though...

	22-02-2003 01:54									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Thanks for the heads-up T-Hawk...I've posted a link to this thread on the PTW Democratic game Forum...I wonder how we (in the PTW Diplo game) are going to handle this bit of information.

Since Nationalism is required to mobilize, your PTW Demo game opponents wouldn't be able to pull this on you until, what . . . say, April, 2005?

Catt

	22-02-2003 02:17									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Point taken Catt! However, it still makes me nervous just the same.

	22-02-2003 02:21									#9
	Tired of ads?

quote: by T-Hawk ... Does NOBODY ever use War-Time Mobilization?

Absolutely not! Well, I'VE never used it anyway...

	22-02-2003 02:42									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

How do you find out about something like this?

quote: Since Nationalism is required to mobilize, your PTW Demo game opponents wouldn't be able to pull this on you until, what . . . say, April, 2005? Catt

Ahhh, so by then a patch will be out hopefully

	22-02-2003 05:29									#11
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

yes, but wouldn't the patch make the save unusable or something? I don't think upgrading mid-game is really a possibility...

	23-02-2003 03:20									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Wittlich That's what worries me. I can't see why it wouldn't work though...

It's just the same kind of situation as the infinite production bug that I found... we just have to trust that people won't use it.

	23-02-2003 08:52									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't know how you caught it but I have to say...that is one great catch T-hawk.

Cheers

	23-02-2003 16:41									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Wow!

	23-02-2003 21:56									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Next PTW patch is coming out probably in as little as a week. Report this bug quickly and who knows, they might fix it soon enough.

	23-02-2003 23:25									#16
	Got spare money?

quote: Next PTW patch is coming out probably in as little as a week.

If it does, this isn't going to be fixed at this stage.

	23-02-2003 23:29									#17
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Switch yes, but wouldn't the patch make the save unusable or something? I don't think upgrading mid-game is really a possibility...

I've patched PTW 21 times since I've gotten it and none of them corrupted saves from a previous patch level.

	23-02-2003 23:45									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

Well that's good to hear WarpStorm!

	23-02-2003 23:59									#19
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

nice job Firaxis... hopefully by 2004 we'll have a decent Civ 3

	24-02-2003 00:24									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Sava nice job Firaxis... hopefully by 2004 we'll have a decent Civ 3

2004??? That early ???

	24-02-2003 00:29									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Sava nice job Firaxis... hopefully by 2004 we'll have a decent Civ 3

Oh c'mon it took over a year for someone to even find this bug. Like you could do better.

	24-02-2003 00:41									#22
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm I've patched PTW 21 times since I've gotten it and none of them corrupted saves from a previous patch level.

IIrc I did have a few strange side-effect from taking a save trough the upgrading path.

	24-02-2003 00:54									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Alva, can you elaborate on the "few strange side-effects"?

	24-02-2003 02:16									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I have had issues with taking a Civ3 save into PTW.

	24-02-2003 02:17									#25
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Good catch.

And yes, I use mobilization often... I would never have thought to figure this out though.

	24-02-2003 02:20									#26
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm I have had issues with taking a Civ3 save into PTW.

Well, I can see why there would be problems with converting a Civ3 game to PTW, since with the improvements in PTW, they are not really the same game anymore...

	24-02-2003 07:06									#27
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Oh c'mon it took over a year for someone to even find this bug. Like you could do better.

Ah, but I'm not being paid to make video games. It's not like this is the first bug my friend. Bashing Firaxis is quite justified.

	24-02-2003 22:38									#28
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Sava Ah, but I'm not being paid to make video games. It's not like this is the first bug my friend. Bashing Firaxis is quite justified.

So what is your job? How about if 1000 people stood around to watch you do your job and posted publically every time you screwed something up or made an honest mistake?

Bet you wouldn't like that, eh?

	25-02-2003 21:54									#29
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous So what is your job? How about if 1000 people stood around to watch you do your job and posted publically every time you screwed something up or made an honest mistake? Bet you wouldn't like that, eh?

Accountability is part of the job. I'm actually studying to become a video game designer. And mistakes cost money. When patch after patch after patch is still buggy, they deserve the grilling they get. I'm not one of those, "Firaxas sucks!",etc, people. I'm simply pointing out the obvious. One honest mistake is one thing, but this game was released with a great number of bugs that were obvious. I don't blame the developers as much as I blame the publisher, though.

	28-02-2003 01:37									#30
	Remove this text

quote: I've confirmed this in Civ3 1.29f and PTW 1.14f. How in the world hasn't this been known? Does NOBODY ever use War-Time Mobilization?

I think I've come across a related bug in my current game. After capturing a city on an island with a 3 population left and quelling the resitors, the people are so upset that even 2 entertainers won't enable the third to harvest food. Rather than just let them starve down to 1, I wanted to pop-rush a harbor to get them some luxuries.

A straight up rush would cost the lives of too many citizens. Rushing a medium level unit would also. I rushed a real cheap unit just to get some shields from my starving citizens. I then switched to a medium unit and it let me rush that one now. Finally, I switched to the harbor and had enough shields to build it that same turn.

I am playing a communist Germany under war-time mobilization, Civ3 v1.29.

Is this a simple production switching expliot? The cost of pop-rushing shouldn't be affected by mobilization, should it?

This bug is probably just showing up because so many critically minded people gave up plowing through the bugs long before this.

BTW, how do you get those cartoony indicators by the citizens on the city screen? Is this a PTW enhancement?