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Grumbold
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London, UK
Mar 2000
time: 05:26
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Its been said already in the last nine pages but I'll chime in on that side of the opnion. MoO2 created a galactic civilisation that could be run single handedly by a fairly competent person with one eye and half a brain. You could play and watch TV, chat to your partner or generally hop up and down from the PC without risking losing the plot in the game. It was heaven for micromanagers because every single task was a no-brainer but there were lots of them to do, just like in the Civ games that so inspired MoO2. You could be deeply absorbed by it if you had the opportunity, but it wasn't important to do so.
Would I have liked another classic simple easy to manage space combat game? Well, sure. I've got at least a dozen of those of varying quality and playability in the cupboard however. What I don't have is a game that actually makes me feel like I really am the supreme ruler of the galaxy with hundreds of planets and fleets at my command. Why? Because I've got to get off of my Imperial throne every two seconds to play the flunky's flunky who twiddles with crop management on planet Plik and industrial output on planet Dweeb because there's absolutely nobody else who will do it for me.
I want the chance to experience a truly BIG game. The way things currently stand that only happens at wargame conventions when you get thirty a side games of playing the high command, and there only one of the thirty can be the man in the big seat ultimately responsible for the big decisions plus a few on his immediate staff get to hear all the reports and offer advice. The rest are only there to interpret and report on their sector and apply whatever orders come down from above.
This is the first computer game that attempts to take that game approach and apply it to the "civilisation" genre. Not long ago Combat Mission did it for wargames and it proved pretty popular. You can't move the men individually there, you cant dictate to them exactly when to fire each shot or override their decisions about whether to advance in the advance of fire or cower in their foxholes, and this AI is praised.
I'm looking forward to accepting the challenge of MoO3 by picking up the reins of power and yanking on them hard. My job is to learn how to be the best Supreme Overlord, not to discover how many cherry pickers is optimum for each individual planet in my domain and order them buit on the optimum turn before moving on to consider the perfect weapons and electronics combination for my next generation destroyer. Do the President and the Prime Minister know the technical specifications of the warships or tanks they are ordering about, or just that they are the forces their generals think can get the job done? I think I know the answer to that one. If the generals screw up, I'm the one who gets to choose the manner of their unpleasant death. Now that's a decision befitting a Supreme Overlord! 
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:26
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There are time when the indisivable way down whom you have no control over does the right thing by not following your order blinding. In WW2 the allies want than brige over
the Upper Rhine river caputer. Than platoon lead by than sergeant to captive than brige got lost in the night ( they have no night vision gear in large scale use yet or GPS to help detame where you are on earth accurate) they saw the Germany blow up than brige but it only weaken the brige not destory it so the platoon ran like hell over the brige to the other side to captive the brige. They radio hight command tell the command what happen and what they did
and to spend help over to then to hold the brigehead on the other side of the Rhine river. All the troop and equipment that was to go to the other brige they where to captive instead went to the wrong brige which they did captive. The engineer also built two platoon brige over the Rhine river by the captive brige.
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Rantz
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Southern CA
May 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by vee4473
wow,
is this a little bit of evidence that game companies actually DO pressure reviewers or mags into writing good reviews?
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sorry to blow a rocket-sized hole in your conspiracy... we stated if you would read, that we wanted someone who would at least have the *pretense* of being objective.
Someone wants to write bad things, it's their choice but journalism (jn theory) is about objective analysis. Or at least the ability to credibly *pretend* you are being objective.
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canimoo2
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I'm with Gumbold on this one, however only as long as the games pulls me in!
My biggest fear is that, yes, we may be the supremely benevolent (or malevolent) rulers, but we will just be marginal observers.
Please, I am in no way saying that this is the case, just afraid it might be.
The community will let me know for sure in about 72 hours.
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booje
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Los Angeles (Los Feliz)
Dec 2002
time: 05:26
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Heh heh Grumbold has hit the nail on the head. Micro-mangement is kinda fun early in MOO but when I've got fleets bearing down on me and tech development to be concerned with, wondering what some backwater planet was currently building was kind of a pain. I think the goal in MOO3 is to let you see the big picture.
I can hardly wait to deploy a crack team of Bulrathi storm troopers on some hapless planet. "Die you dogs! Die! And where is my GIANT hot fudge sundae??"
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SnowFire
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New York City, NY
Jan 1970
time: 00:26
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Well, I had high hopes for Civ3, and ended up being put off by the early good reviews and criticisms, because I realized that the game was Civ 2.1. Still, after the initial flurry of good reviews, I've decided to take a shot and order MOO3. The biggest reason in ignoring this review is not just Tom Chick's hatred of Deus Ex (didn't even read the review), but rather that review of Eternal Darkness. I've just played through ED recently, actually, and his review is so far from the truth it's staggering. He totally missed the point of the game and I half wonder if he played a different one. The only thing I can think of is perhaps he always kept his sanity meter maxed with magic, but that's no fun. Anyway, that gave pause to this review for me, so let's hope for my money's sake that he totally missed the point of MOO3 too.
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billybaruch1
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Here we are New Year's Eve, hours away from the WORLDWIDE release, scrappin anda fonkin. Can't we all get along?
quote:
sorry to blow a rocket-sized hole in your conspiracy... we stated if you would read, that we wanted someone who would at least have the *pretense* of being objective. |
What's this pretend bs? We want the the real thing. But really, I think Stormhound and Rantz and Sencho are great, man. I really do. Alan Emerich... Brian Reynolds... for auld lang sine (whatever that means).
The 1/4 to 3 reviewer missed the boat on specifying development plans. The "A" Vault reviewer, in a similar, but different, way was unwilling to suspend disbelief.
It may be like a movie or a novel (or an opera, not that I'd know anything about those). Just immerse yourself in the Galaxy and, then bring it on!
The more you put into it, the more you'll get out of it.
Of course, your mileage may vary.
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booje
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Los Angeles (Los Feliz)
Dec 2002
time: 05:26
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Hey so what's up with Antaran X's?? All you do is send some ships out and that's it?
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darcy
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What did you eXpect?
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Grumbold
If your Supreme Overlord is obviously incompetent, the best thing clearly would be to quietly marginalise the impact of his deranged rantings. Not that I'm suggesting that you will be one such "observer".
Now is my moon sized hot fudge sundae built yet, or do I have to incinerate another advisor for interpreting it as a request for a death star? Well, speak up! |
All system of government that worked over the long haul have than way to deal with incompetent leader. Even than competent leader cannot run everything, he needed good man and woman under him or her to run thing. In the milkly way galaxy there may-be about 200 million planet that can or can be make to support human life or other life form that can live on our planet type. If I want to rule all these planets I cannot do so directly by micro-mangenment but only indirectly by given general order to be carry out and or disokey if my command will cause more problen for the vicroyal. In WW2 Churchhill sent than order to the Viceroyal of India to kill Gandie , the Viceroyal disobey that supid order as killing Gandie would have lead to masive unrest and posible revolt in India. The only Nation that doesnot have than way to deal with incompetent leader is America. Look at JRK and
the Bay of Pig fiaso and LBJ and the Vietman War and Ronald Regan and Star War.
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kalbear
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Deploying ships is one way of finding the Xs. There are others.
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booje
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Los Angeles (Los Feliz)
Dec 2002
time: 05:26
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I am running an experiment: I don't do anything except hit the 'Next Turn' button. So far after playing for 1+ hours I am at turn 200 and have not lost yet.
How long will it take for me to lose?
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Craig P.
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I can understand, even after three or four hours of play, why Tom Chick wouldn't like it.
I don't share his opinion, mind you, but based on what he says he doesn't like about it, I understand why.
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booje
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Los Angeles (Los Feliz)
Dec 2002
time: 05:26
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Doesn't it seem kind of odd (scary?) that I could be at game 200 without doing anything except hit the next turn button and not have lost yet?
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TrainWreck20
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Austin, TX
Jul 1999
time: 05:26
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Is your civ colonizing? Or are you staying in your home system? If you are small and your neighbors don't even like your type of planet, I am sure you are not worth their while....esp. in a one of the larger galaxy options when there are other worlds.
Besides, maybe you haven't lost, but are you in last place? There are more ways to lose than to get wiped out.....
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Pax
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I have played the first rfts,armada 2525, moo, civ, moo2, civ2, smac, civ3 with varying degrees of satisfaction. eu2, the second rfts and ig2 have mainly stayed in my CD case. The former games pulled me into what was going on. I was disillusioned with games that lacked character. In Civ2 I was Carthage and hated the Spanish for challenging my control of the med. I loved the Morgan Faction's business principles and the social engineering aspects of smac that allowed me to build my perfect society.
After the original rfts and Armada2525, I was amazed by MOO's ability to take the numbers and visualize them. Supreme Leaders have to have parades, kiss babies or hatchlings. Societies have to have a face of there enemy. When I purchased the second rfts I was supremely disappointed. I want character in my games and complexity.
That being said. I am reserving my opinion of MOO3 until I personally find lack of character.
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darcy
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quote:
I think the AI may not be as aggressive if it can expand, and it may not launch ground assaults alot. |
quote:
If you are small and your neighbors don't even like your type of planet, I am sure you are not worth their while.... |
You're trying to find excuses for an AI that is probably just malfunctioning. This is reminding me of a funny post by Brad Wardell I read today:
quote:
In defense of fanboys everywhere..
Early on in the beta of our current game, during the "United Planets" security council meetings, civilizations would vote randomly on resolutions. This was place holder stuff until the AI for it could be put in.
But some of our fans would come up with impressively complex explanations as to why the AI voted a certain way. "Ah! You see, the Drengin were trying to psyche out the Arceans by voting in a way that seemed to go against their better interests.." when in reality it was just ulVote = rand()%5.
Of course, voting now has AI behind it and so the votes by the AI make more sense but we no longer get that cool "Ah! The Yor are sucking up to the Altarians by voting their way even though they're at war.." anymore.
In other words, there's nothing that unusual about IMOO. Fans tend to give something the benefit of the doubt.
Remember: Whenever something that doesn't make sense happens, wizards did it. |
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Antonin
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quote:
Originally posted by Stuie
Funny that he loved EU, which to my mind did the same thing: much of the calculations are running under the hood and it's your job to just shut up and move the pieces around, leaving all those numbers alone to do their own thing.....
But then, I never took the time to learn how to play EU. A lot of people did, and really enjoy. Looks like MOO3 may be the same type of game. |
When I bought EU2 I tried to play it and it seemed like a completely opaque mess. I put it aside and then 8 months later tried it again, spent some time trying everything, failing, losing, etc, and then suddenly everything clicked and now it is one of my five favorite games of all time.
I'm not saying all strategy games should be like this. I understand that a game like this will turn off a lot of players. But if MOO3 is the "same type of game" as EU2, then it is definitely something I want to own.
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booje
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Los Angeles (Los Feliz)
Dec 2002
time: 05:26
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Hmmm....maybe you're right TrainWreck...
I SO want to like (love) MOO3! I will try again some more tonight.
Gotta say though when I popped in Medieval Total War it was pretty much love at first sight.
Maybe I just need to give Moo3 more time and chances...
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24-02-2003 17:48
that's right, I'm bored! 
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