23-02-2003 00:47									#1
	Good Map-maker Needed Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=77852

We need someone to make the map for the PBEM game in the above thread. There is no need to make the entire map, just some modifications to a random Archipelago/80% Water map.

	23-02-2003 04:47									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Is this the complete list:

No corruption - To make powerful and far cities that will function as bases an important aspect of the game.
No tech trading - I'm not sure about that, but it might add some more flavor to the game.
Bombardment kills - To make ships and carrier-based aircraft more effective.
30% faster vessels - To make ships more effective.
20% cheaper vessels - To make ships more easily available.
Pre-made - The random map generator cannot create the map we need, most of the time there will be 2-3 major land masses that will have to be divided and small islands that will have to be added.

If so what do you want the map to look like? Do you want somewhat equal resources? Do you want some civs starting close together and others starting far apart?

	23-02-2003 09:41									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'll post a detailed description later today, gotta run now.

	23-02-2003 20:38									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Sheik Is this the complete list: No corruption - To make powerful and far cities that will function as bases an important aspect of the game. No tech trading - I'm not sure about that, but it might add some more flavor to the game. Bombardment kills - To make ships and carrier-based aircraft more effective. 30% faster vessels - To make ships more effective. 20% cheaper vessels - To make ships more easily available. Pre-made - The random map generator cannot create the map we need, most of the time there will be 2-3 major land masses that will have to be divided and small islands that will have to be added. If so what do you want the map to look like? Do you want somewhat equal resources? Do you want some civs starting close together and others starting far apart?

Also: Make all UU's available to all players and take away their ability to generate a Golden Age.

There should be six starting islands that each can can support approxiamately 3-4 size 21 cities.

Am not sure how they want resources distrubuted or if they want them randomly distribruted.

	23-02-2003 20:56									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Do you want y-wraping and x-wraping on?

	23-02-2003 21:17									#6
	Got spare money?

x-wrapping yes
y-wrapping no
polar ice caps yes

(I think the others will agree)

	23-02-2003 21:49									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Barbarians?

	23-02-2003 21:50									#8
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph x-wrapping yes y-wrapping no polar ice caps yes (I think the others will agree)

Agree

	23-02-2003 21:51									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'd say 'yes' to babarians, though don't know on which level they should be...

	23-02-2003 23:10									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think not very high. My vote is roaming, at most restless.

	24-02-2003 01:17									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Goody huts on starting islands? Goody huts on other islands, but noit starting one? Or no goody huts at all?

	24-02-2003 03:38									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

No goody huts on starting island but goody huts on other islands.

Reason - so no-one gets a key tech early (and a boost towards map-making) or a settler/town. That way the early game should be level up to the point we all reach MM and after that someone getting lucky from a goody hut won't make a really big difference.

	24-02-2003 05:16									#13
	Got spare money?

Alright, I have a map ready.

1. Huge
2. Islands (Bigger than you wanted but not too big)
3. + 30% Ship Movement (Rounded to nearest whole number .5 rounds up)
4. - 20% Ship Cost (Rounded same as #3)
5. No Corruption on all dificulties
6. X-Wraping On, Y-Wraping Off
7. Barbarian camps exist and barbarians are at Roaming
8. Goody huts on other lands besides home island
9. Bombardment Kills (All units that had a bombard value now have lethal land and lethal sea)
10. Every civ can now build any UU and the unit that UU originally replaced.
11. No unit starts a golden age
12. Start locations are not player or civ specific.

Tell me if you want it posted here and if there is anything else you want.

	24-02-2003 13:02									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Thank you very much, Sheik! We'll discuss the play order and will let you know in this thread, how we want to get the file.

	24-02-2003 16:19									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

One more thing, can we please make sure, that the conditions are at least a bit fair? As far as I know, the map generator isn't very generous with lakes and rivers on archipelago, and to be stuck on a plains island without the hope to irrigate it would be disastrous for this player. Same goes, of course, for hills and jungle.

	24-02-2003 16:39									#16
	Support Apolyton

It's not all.


Get rid of all the big plains/tundra/desert/jungle concentrations. There should be some of those tiles(for resources, among other reasons), but there shouldnt be entire islands filled with them.

And give horses and iron to every starting islands, with other resources distributed on the small ones.

Also make sure there are enough resources. We dont want 3 Coal resources on a six players map.

Agreed?

	24-02-2003 16:44									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Luxuries are also important. Every civ should have at least two-three of them within reach either on the main island or nearby ones. They should also come in small patches, to allow trading.

	24-02-2003 17:13									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

We're six players. Each of us could have a world supply (6) of one exclusive luxury, and the two remaining luxuries (could be wines and furs) could be with a civ supply (1) near the starts of each civs.

So, for instance, if I had incense as "my" exclusive luxury, I would expect to find a total of six incenses, one fur and one wine at my starting landmass or the closest islands.

	24-02-2003 17:33									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Maybe 5 will be better, so 1 other player still will be able to get your exclusive luxury (Where the last one is to find on one of the islands nearby...

	24-02-2003 18:12									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Definitely would like for there to be rivers, especially on starting islands, would prefer for a nonplayer to start the game and then send it to the first player.

	24-02-2003 19:18									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by ADG Maybe 5 will be better, so 1 other player still will be able to get your exclusive luxury (Where the last one is to find on one of the islands nearby...

Agreed, but this still makes 6 luxuries of every type, just that now each of us has not 3 but 4 luxuries around.

5 supplies of his "almost exclusive"
1 supply of another player's "almost exclusive"
1 wines
1 furs

Did I got this right? This makes the game somewhat easier.

	24-02-2003 19:50									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yeah, looks ok.

I agree to what GF said about rivers. Starting without irrigation on the main island is not going to be pretty.

	25-02-2003 02:22									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

There are:
5 of an exculsive luxury to every home island
1 of another civs exclusive luxury on 1/6 home islands
2 of a luxury
1 of a luxury

As for strategic resources. Every civ will have iron and horses. Every island is lacking a strategic resource or two but throughout the world there are generous quantities of all resources.

Every home island has great land with rivers. Every home island has a decent start location.

	25-02-2003 04:31									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

Thank you very much, Sheik!

Players are, in that order:

1 - Eli (Egypt) Industrious and Religious
2 - ormuzd (Japan) Militaristic and Religious
3 - Sir Ralph (Celts) Scientific and Industrious
4 - ADG (Aztecs) Industrious and Religious
5 - CerberusIV (Ottomans) Scientific and Industrious
6 - GhengisFarb (Germans) Industrious and Religious

Could you change the civ traits and starting techs accordingly?

Additionally, I want my civ, the Celts, customized, as I would like to try an Ultima VII revival game .

Leader Name: British
Formal: Britannia
Noun: Britannians
Adjective: Britannian
Title: Lord

If that is fine with the others, we could get things started, the earlier, the better.

	25-02-2003 05:30									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Alright, do the other players want anything changed?

Did you say you wanted no starting techs?

	25-02-2003 05:34									#26
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Sheik Alright, do the other players want anything changed? Did you say you wanted no starting techs?

I think it was decided to go with starting techs afterall.

	25-02-2003 13:04									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We excluded the commercial and expansionistic trait, because they are completely useless (no corruption, small islands), but provide prerequisite techs to Map Making. Since we did that, we can play with starting techs, according to the chosen traits.

Militaristic: Warrior Code
Religious: Ceremonial Burial
Scientific: Bronze Working
Industrious: Masonry

	25-02-2003 16:58									#28
	Remove this text

Wonders :

All wonders that have effect for "every city on the continent" should be changed to have the same effect for "every city".

Tech rate should also be adjusted, probably. We're still discussing it.

	25-02-2003 23:02									#29
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph We excluded the commercial and expansionistic trait, because they are completely useless (no corruption, small islands), but provide prerequisite techs to Map Making. Since we did that, we can play with starting techs, according to the chosen traits. Militaristic: Warrior Code Religious: Ceremonial Burial Scientific: Bronze Working Industrious: Masonry

Since no one starts out with Alphabet and Pottery due to the fact that we elimated those traits perhaps we could give those two techs to everyone as additional starting techs to help speed up advancement to Mapmaking.

	26-02-2003 01:20									#30
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

This would be possible, as it would be possible to play without starting techs at all. But we shouldn't confuse our map maker with discussions here. Let's discuss this in the other thread.

To Sheik:

Wonders that need changes to make it better to build them on small islands:
The Pyramids (change to "Gain in every city" upper right)
Sun Tzu (change to "Gain in every city" upper right)
JS Bach's Cathedral (unselect "continental mood effect" lower left)

Tech rate for huge maps:
Set to 280, in the mid between large and standard (I think we agreed on this).