23-02-2003 01:29									#1
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Does anyone know how to calculate the number of beakers needed for a tech?

I thought it was

(editor cost) * (24 on standard size map) *
(1 - (civs that you have contact with that have the tech / # total civs))

...but there seems to be a small difference, possibly because we're playing on Monarch level.

For Pottery, it should amount to 2 * 24 / (1-0) = 48.

However, when running a simulation, I get 18 turns to Pottery at 3 beakers / turn.

	23-02-2003 01:32									#2
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First time I hear about that.

I always thought that the difficulty level didn't affect the amount of beakers needed.

	23-02-2003 01:41									#3
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I suspect the amount to be 10% higher - at least, that would explain the difference between my calculations and that of Dominae's.

	23-02-2003 01:48									#4
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AFAIK it's: (editor cost) * (24 on standard size map) *
(1 - (civs that you have contact with that have the tech / ((# total civs) - 1) * 2) ))
So the minimum beaker price for a tech is half its normal price.

That still doesn't explain the variation though. Are you sure you're running the simulation on a standard map?

	23-02-2003 01:55									#5
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Yes - a 100 x 100 map.

EDIT: it shows 16 turns to Pottery in the game save. So - there must be something wrong with the simulation I'm running. But what ..?

	23-02-2003 02:11									#6
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It isn't based on modded rules by any chance...?
Just an idea.

	23-02-2003 02:21									#7
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Found the problem. The game is actually on Regent level.

The simulation created by Dominae was on Monarch level. This level adds 10% to the beaker cost.

The difference caused all the confusion.

	23-02-2003 02:34									#8
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Yup, some other team messed up the delicate PBEM load/save process and has knocked us down to Regent. Should we bring this before the UN and propose a re-do of the past turn?


Dominae

	23-02-2003 02:39									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Yup, some other team messed up the delicate PBEM load/save process and has knocked us down to Regent. Should we bring this before the UN and propose a re-do of the past turn? Dominae

Doh! Someone pulled a Homer.

	23-02-2003 02:47									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Yup, some other team messed up the delicate PBEM load/save process and has knocked us down to Regent. Should we bring this before the UN and propose a re-do of the past turn? Dominae

We should inform the UN of this change, but there is very little point in replaying the turns. This change happens in a huge amount of PBEM games (do we even know what - exactly - causes it?) and we can't replay every turn we notice it in.

	23-02-2003 02:50									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Yup, some other team messed up the delicate PBEM load/save process and has knocked us down to Regent. Should we bring this before the UN and propose a re-do of the past turn?

Actually, the problem has been discovered during the first turn, but all (or most) teams preferred going on. It seems like nobody did anything wrong - the save displayed Regent upon loading for all teams - perhaps the load bug again... at least we are not on Cheiftain!

	23-02-2003 02:50									#12
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Actually there is a way to avoid it. It has to do with how you load up the game (let's forget that there is also a way to avoid this problem altogether when creating the scenario in the first place...). We should bring the problem and solution to the UN ASAP.


Dominae

	23-02-2003 02:54									#13
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Hm, either the first team did not load the game correctly, or the scenario was created on Regent in the first place.

With UN approval, we could fix this permanently by creating another scenario with the same map and setting the difficulty (Monarch) for each player. This is the best time to do it since we're only two turns in. Of course, I doubt anyone will be receptive to this idea.


Dominae

	23-02-2003 02:56									#14
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Actually, the problem has been discovered during the first turn, but all (or most) teams preferred going on.

Could you post findings such as these on this forum (if you did not already)? It's kind of important in economic matters...


Dominae

	23-02-2003 02:58									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Could you post findings such as these on this forum (if you did not already)? It's kind of important in economic matters... Dominae

Actually, it has already been added to the InfoCentral... but I admit I did not stress that addition anywhere, partly because the information has not been "official".

Now that you did the maths, we can be sure.

	23-02-2003 03:01									#16
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EDIT: post deleted.

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 23-02-2003 at 03:06

	23-02-2003 03:02									#17
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack at least we are not on Cheiftain!

...yet.

	23-02-2003 03:12									#18
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BFM has made a good point. We need to check every turn so that if the game gets knocked down to chieftain, we'd notice and change our plans accordingly.

	23-02-2003 18:56									#19
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Or Accelerated Production, or extra producion, etc....

E_T

	24-02-2003 22:39									#20
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Doing a bit of research just in case the F6 science screen could be useful for the AI I found this.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=29485

I think that's what you were asking for BFM.

Personally I think he is wrong when he multiplies the number of civilizations left by 1.75. I think it's just Civs who have the tech and you have contacted divided by the total civs left in the game (as told in the thread about the same subject in Apolyton forums). However he is right if the cost factor depending on the difficulty level.

By the way, it's allowed to use infor from other sites for our team?

Last edited by OliverFA on 24-02-2003 at 22:45

	24-02-2003 23:59									#21
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Much of the Soviet Intelligence in the 50's ~80's was done reading newspapers, science magazines, university papers and stuff like that...

It's legal.

	25-02-2003 00:08									#22
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So you sit calmly reading newspapers and they pay you for it? I want a position like this!

	25-02-2003 02:02									#23
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We can pay someone to do that... in Lytons (our currency in the C3DG)!

But seriously, it's a good idea to "lurk" the public part of the other teams fora, specially the strategic ones. This certainly will be very useful.