23-02-2003 03:26									#1
	Turn 60, 1525BC Increase Your PM Length

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Researching Code of Laws at 100%, ready in 3 turns.
- 48 gold cash, -2 per turn
- Eye of the Storm's radius expands in two turns.

Urgent questions:


Military:
New settler heads down the road toward site #4. (Name, anyone?)

Economy:
Worker near Hurricane starts mine.
EotS finishes settler, starts worker.
Rearrange laborers in EotS to maximize production while still growing next turn and not robbing Hurricane of produciton. (I think that will mean working a FP, an irrigated fur, and an irrigated plains, but I'm not positive.)

Diplomacy:
- Note to Vox: We finally want contact to Lux

Last edited by nbarclay on 23-02-2003 at 19:56

	23-02-2003 03:35									#2
	Re: Turn 60, 1525BC Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Diplomacy: - Note to Vox: We finally want contact to Lux

We STILL haven't got it?

Their failure to give it to us by now goes beyond simple forgetfulness ... they are either terminally stupid or they are deliberately stalling to keep us at a disadvantage. Neither is at all acceptable in a trading partner.

	23-02-2003 04:07									#3
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I've sent Vox a note regarding the contact. I hope this was a serie of mistakes, but i can't think of any reason why Vox keeps contact from us- do they have some secret deal with them?

Seems unlikely...

	23-02-2003 04:24									#4
	Got spare money?

Strange, very strange....

Why would they do this? No need to aggrivate us by doing this, is there?

	23-02-2003 10:01									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Shouldn't we start working on coordinating the sale of CoL?

	23-02-2003 21:13									#6
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Please join #bfm. BFM invited me there to discuss, with BetaHound, the possibility of transferring Lux's funds to Vox and GS. I made it very clear that I am not an official representative of Gathering Storm, so we're only brainstorming, but it'd be very handy if an appointed diplomat from GS was present.

	23-02-2003 21:47									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Here's the log up until the point where I had to restart my computer. I understand Sir Ralph took over shortly thereafter:

[16:57] (Shiber) Hello
[16:57] (Shiber) how are we doing?
[17:01] (Tuome) Umm... what is this place?
[17:01] (Shiber) it is a channel that BigFurryMonster opened, for which reason i don't know
[17:01] (BigFurryMonster) The reason is to have a chat with some people
[17:01] (BigFurryMonster) Tuome - can I ask you to leave, plz?
[17:02] (BetaHound) yo
[17:02] (BigFurryMonster) Hey
[17:02] (BetaHound) whi is tuome
[17:02] (BetaHound) who
[17:02] (BigFurryMonster) Dunno - I just asked him to leave
[17:03] (BetaHound) still here
[17:03] (BigFurryMonster) I don't know how to secure a channel. Do you?
[17:03] (BetaHound) nope
[17:03] (BetaHound) Shiber - can you do it and invite BFM and me.
[17:03] (BetaHound) ah - Ok
[17:03] (BetaHound) Hi Shiber.
[17:03] (BigFurryMonster) Oh - T. is gone
[17:03] (Shiber) as long as noone is here, it doesn't matter
[17:03] (BigFurryMonster) Great
[17:04] (BetaHound) yes
[17:04] (BetaHound) Shiber - how are you?
[17:04] (Shiber) BigFurryMonster, i recommend that you give both BetaHound and myself op status.
[17:04] (Shiber) BetaHound, wonderful
[17:04] (BigFurryMonster) Shiber - how do I do that?
[17:04] (BetaHound) Before we get ther shiber, I have a question ..
[17:04] (BigFurryMonster) ok
[17:04] (BetaHound) It was what I wanted to talk about.
[17:04] (Shiber) type /op BetaHound Shiber
[17:05] (BigFurryMonster) yeah
[17:05] (BetaHound) what does that do. Felt good.
[17:05] (BigFurryMonster) You now have a '@' thingy next to your name
[17:05] (Shiber) just gives us equal privileges in this room
[17:05] (BetaHound) Oh - oK
[17:05] (BetaHound) So my question..
[17:06] (BetaHound) Whi is GS so eager to get communications/contact with Lux?
[17:06] (Shiber) be right back
[17:06] (BetaHound) Second question - what does afk mean?
[17:07] (BigFurryMonster) Away From Keyboard
[17:07] (BigFurryMonster) Or 'Kennel' in your case ;-)
[17:07] (BetaHound) Thanks. A long mystery solved.
[17:08] (BetaHound) I have only been involved in Apolyton and chat room stuff since November, so I an still in a learning mode.
[17:08] (Shiber) i am back
[17:08] (Shiber) BigFurryMonster, BetaHound, before we begin, I'd like to ask,
[17:09] (Shiber) is any of you an official representative of your respective teams?
[17:09] (BigFurryMonster) I am.
[17:09] (BetaHound) I am VFA for Vox.
[17:09] (BetaHound) Voice of foreign affairs.
[17:09] (BetaHound) Same as FAM.
[17:10] (BetaHound) OK?
[17:10] (Shiber) BetaHound and BigFurryMonster, I would like to note that I am not an official representative of Gathering Storm on this matter.
[17:10] (BigFurryMonster) Noted.
[17:10] (Shiber) Everything I do and say represents me and me only.
[17:10] (BetaHound) Noted.
[17:11] (BetaHound) Are you uncomfortable with this chat?
[17:11] (Shiber) Furthermore, I am not at all certain that continuing this conversation would be regarded as proper practice in the eyes of my colleagues.
[17:11] (Shiber) BetaHound, yes, quite
[17:11] (Shiber) Though, there still might be something that I can help you with, so speak up.
[17:12] (BigFurryMonster) Beta has a Q. If you're uncomfortable to answer, just don't
[17:12] (BetaHound) OK - I am trying to figure out why GS is so eager to make contact with a soon-to-be dead civilization - ie Lux.
[17:12] * BigFurryMonster disagrees on the 'dead' part
[17:12] (Shiber) eager?
[17:12] (Shiber) i'm surprised to hear that
[17:13] (Shiber) let us refrain from such expressions
[17:13] (BetaHound)
[17:13] (BetaHound) agreed
[17:13] (BetaHound) Yes - I have two PM's - one from nathan - another from zeit. Pleasantly worded, but keen on the contact. Both ackowkedge that Lux will be exiting the world stage soon.
[17:13] (Shiber) BetaHound, in order for you to understand our nature, I would have to answer your question with another question: why is Vox Controli so eager to delay the trade of contact with Lux Invicta to Gathering Storm?
[17:14] (Shiber) or at least it would seem so, since it has been three turns now since we asked for this contact
[17:15] (BetaHound) Amongst friends here - we were pitching a deal to Lux that rather than have their gold reservs fall into NeuD's hands, they send it to us before their demise. We felt GS may want to do the same.
[17:15] (Shiber) BetaHound, to be honest, we are simply puzzled that your team chose to delay the passing of this contact.
[17:15] (BetaHound) Understand?
[17:15] (Shiber) Interesting you mention that, I have proposed the same deal to my team.
[17:15] (Shiber) it was not accepted by a majority though
[17:16] (BigFurryMonster) Shiber - which deal?
[17:16] (Shiber) however, I regard it as highly important to ensure that Lux's funds do not fall to the hands of their enemies
[17:16] (BetaHound) But do you understand our point on this?
[17:16] (BigFurryMonster) Trip and I agree that we must draw our chequebook soon
[17:16] (Shiber) BigFurryMonster, proposing to your team that if you see that your civilization is about to fall, you will transfer your funds to our civ, instead of letting it fall to the hands of your hated enemies
[17:17] (BigFurryMonster) OK. We would need contact for that, indeed
[17:17] (BetaHound) Your civ, Shiber?
[17:17] (BigFurryMonster) But there will be no need for us if we die completely
[17:18] (Shiber) Yes, Gathering Storm. Not 'my civ' as in the civ I own, but the civ I come from, as in 'my country', 'my school' and so on.
[17:18] (BetaHound) You missdmy point.
[17:19] (BetaHound) Let me explain. No responses for a second - OK?
[17:19] (Shiber) BigFurryMonster, in any case, you can transfer your funds or part of it to Vox and GS for safekeeping, and should you (hopefully) survive this war, we will return it immediately upon your request
[17:19] (Shiber) ok
[17:20] (BetaHound) and then you ask why we would want to delay giving you contact?
[17:21] (Shiber) we did not realize that you would ask Lux for that
[17:21] (Shiber) in any case, GS did not accept my proposal
[17:21] (BetaHound) OK.
[17:21] (Shiber) though they may reconsider it now that Vox is in it too
[17:22] (BetaHound) sigh...
[17:22] (Shiber) have i missed your point again?
[17:23] (BetaHound) no - you would have to be in our shoes living next door to GS to understand. That is not meant as bitter or critical satement, just a fcat of life.
[17:23] (BetaHound) fact
[17:24] (Shiber) I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Sorry if I may be slow, or missing out on something here.
[17:25] (BetaHound) Ok - but please don't respons for a minute until I say I am finished. Ok.
[17:25] (BetaHound) GS and Vox get off to a shaky start...
[17:25] (BetaHound) But we reach an agreement on trade and border...
[17:26] (BetaHound) GS clearly has the advnatage of more and better land...
[17:26] (BetaHound) Vox has the advantage of contact with ethe other continent - and its civs...
[17:26] (BetaHound) We agree to not take advantage of our leverage ...
[17:27] (BetaHound) Wew have been model partnesr in this deal...
[17:27] (BetaHound) Other tan the odd 'honest forgetting' to do things on certain turns...
[17:28] (BetaHound) Two players - Diss and myself ... sometimes we miss stuff... honestly ...
[17:28] (BetaHound) We have not held anything back...
[17:28] (BetaHound) Other than this latest matter of Lux ...
[17:28] (BetaHound) And I have explained my reasons why ...
[17:29] (BetaHound) And when I do ...
[17:29] (Shiber) i must apologize, i am having severe problems with my computer
[17:29] (Shiber) i will have to restart
[17:29] (Shiber) i'm terribly sorry
[17:29] * BigFurryMonster will wait for you

	23-02-2003 23:34									#8
	Suffering from ads?

Oh, Shiber, could you unban and register me back to the GS room. Didn't know you had to check in at least once each month.
Thanks

	23-02-2003 23:39									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Done.
I'll stick around if anyone whose nicks have expired wants to use this channel as well. Send a message or post in this thread if you need any help.

	24-02-2003 11:13									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

Lux gave us contact with Neu Demogyptica, and checking who we can engage in diplomacy with, we have contact with Lux as well. We now have contact with everyone but Lego!

	24-02-2003 11:16									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Looking at possible deals, Lux is the only civ that is missing a tech we have: they don't have Writing yet.

	24-02-2003 11:22									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Portia (formerly Dissidentville) is now Lux's capital. It looks like they abandoned their old capital rather than let it fall, as expected. I moved Hack north to have a look, and there are no units in the city. I also moved Gronk north to maintain our anti-barb watch.

	24-02-2003 11:28									#13
	Support Apolyton

Vox is clearing the jungle tile "9" from Portia. Once that's done, our WCs will have a path clear through to Vox's homeland if we want it sometime.

	24-02-2003 11:38									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

After some thought, I moved Zonk 2 to so we won't be forced to leave either our settler or our worker uncovered against the remote possibility of barbs in the far south. No barbs spotted. A "2" move next turn could verify that no barbs are close enough to strike while we're settling, or he can move to cover the settler next turn with the assurance that the worker won't be attacked while he's doing it.

Edit: Sorry about all these unplanned moves, but we didn't realize the Vox/Lux deal would move quite so fast and I hadn't thought about the barbarian situation in the south until I moved the settler and started thinking about the escort situation.

	24-02-2003 11:53									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: they don't have Writing yet.

Guess where they are going to get it from...

	24-02-2003 11:55									#16
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Vox is clearing the jungle tile "9" from Portia. Once that's done, our WCs will have a path clear through to Vox's homeland if we want it sometime.

Anyone game for fulfilling our prime objective?

	24-02-2003 11:57									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Score information:

106 (+2) Gathering Storm
113 (+2) Demogyptica
93 (+1) Glory of War
117 (+3) Role Play
83 (+2) Vox Controli
72 (-1) Lux Invicta
126 (+1) Legoland

Lego's score just went up by one this time. That's atypical.

	24-02-2003 12:00									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

One warning about our WC route: If Vox is smart, they'll have someone ready to pillage the road where it goes through the jungle the moment Portia/Dissidentville falls. I won't be shocked if they don't think of it, but they might surprise us and actually think about the danger.

	24-02-2003 12:03									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If we do want to change plans to something more militaristic, Hurricane's prebuild could turn into a granary in three turns. That's the last good cut-off point to change our minds about it before the Colossus (which would probably come about 18 or 19 turns later).

	24-02-2003 12:08									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I just noticed that Vox has a worker under their warrior 6-9 from Grog's post on Lookout Ridge. They're probably preparing a road to their planned cities in that area.

	24-02-2003 12:09									#21
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Not yet.

I wouldn't mind putting ALOT of pressure on Lux for giving us their BOB map though.

	24-02-2003 12:30									#22
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Shots sent. I decided to go for a little bit bigger set than usual this time, complete with score, culture, and even a foreign advisor shot (just because seeing all those faces is so nice after our long period of isolation) in additon to the ubiquitous map, power graph, and F11.

	24-02-2003 12:35									#23
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Looking at possible deals, Lux is the only civ that is missing a tech we have: they don't have Writing yet.

There goes the horsemen snuck into Portia fear. No gallies to get them across.

btw, how are we positve that it is a shallow coast tile and not an isthmus connecting Vox with Lux?

	24-02-2003 12:43									#24
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Turn sent.

In regard to what separated Vox from Lux's old lands, Vox says it's water, and RP also sounded like it's water. (Edit: RP's information comes from GoW.) Also, even before we got confirmation from Vox, we had a strong hunch that Vox was separated from their neighbor by water based on Vox's ability to send every single warrior they had in our direction early in the game. So I'd say we're about as sure as is possible short of actually being given a world map.

Nathan

	24-02-2003 12:45									#25
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay So I'd say we're about as sure as is possible short of actually being given a world map.

Tap, tap, tap...

Who is the ambassador to Lux?

	24-02-2003 12:47									#26
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

No one has map making yet, so we can't get a world map in-game. The best we could get is a mini-map, but it would be theoretically possible for someone to doctor one of those (e.g. create a scenario almost but not quite the same and capture a minimap from that). Still, it wouldn't hurt to apply some pressure for Lux to give us a current minimap.

Nathan

	24-02-2003 12:49									#27
	Increase the size of your Attachments

We do need to start contacting RP, ND, and GoW about possible deals for Code of Laws when we finish researching it. Ideally, we want firm commitments from everyone before we actually make a trade, at least unless the civ we trade to is willing to promise not to sell, trade, or give it to anyone else.

	24-02-2003 12:54									#28
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yes, excellent. And perhaps we can get Map Making for it...

Hint.

	24-02-2003 13:28									#29
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Don't be shy as to hold (read: forget) to send it to Vox turn later either..
(yeah, yeah, I know, honour and sort of thing )

	24-02-2003 13:30									#30
	Put an end to popups!

Nathan, could you please add me to your mailing list? Since our GS mailing list is not longer useful, I stopped to receive your screenshots.

sirralph at gmx dot com

Thanks.