23-02-2003 10:40									#1
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Who our the judges if a court case happens?

	23-02-2003 10:49									#2
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I don't think there's going to be a court. The consuls basically decide everything, so anything not outlined in a bill will be something for the consulate to address.

	26-02-2003 09:30									#3
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What happens if one of the consuls are the defendent?

	26-02-2003 10:43									#4
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quote: Originally posted by MJW What happens if one of the consuls are the defendent?

A CoC (change of command) vote will be called upon him. As the Constitution grants Consuls almost unlimited power, they can hardly do anything violating the Constitution. The ultimate tool against them is the CoC vote. If a Consul does something outraging, he may and shall be removed by the voice of people.

	26-02-2003 11:38									#5
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That's why I'm here playing, some of the other Demo games got outa hand as far as bringing 'lawsuits' and such (I was just a lurker). It seemed that they got far more interested in those matters than the actual game.

I feel my input is listened to as much as anyones elses; the Consuls don't go off on their on volition(sp?) (though they could for a short while )

This system alows for maximum fun; and gameplay is the central topic. There's hardly any politicing(sp?), and that's the way I like my fun.

	26-02-2003 18:25									#6
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quote: Originally posted by bigfree1 That's why I'm here playing, some of the other Demo games got outa hand as far as bringing 'lawsuits' and such (I was just a lurker). It seemed that they got far more interested in those matters than the actual game. I feel my input is listened to as much as anyones elses; the Consuls don't go off on their on volition(sp?) (though they could for a short while ) This system alows for maximum fun; and gameplay is the central topic. There's hardly any politicing(sp?), and that's the way I like my fun.

Ditto.

	26-02-2003 19:22									#7
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quote: I don't think there's going to be a court.

Let's cut down the bureacrocy side as much as possible...

	27-02-2003 11:28									#8
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Proving once more as I have repeatedly said that democracy SUCKS.

	27-02-2003 15:33									#9
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hi ,

sooner or later some one is going to sue the whole government , .....

so should we proceed with a court or not , ......

it would be intresting to have some type of it just in case , ..... but only for serious matters , .....

have a nice day

	28-02-2003 03:11									#10
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Personally I count on the professionalism of our consuls so such a thing will never be necessary.

Of course they may come a time...

	28-02-2003 03:13									#11
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , sooner or later some one is going to sue the whole government , ..... so should we proceed with a court or not , ...... it would be intresting to have some type of it just in case , ..... but only for serious matters , ..... have a nice day

Uh......No, I don't think so; if you're looking for something more interesting; go for a walk, read a book, join a club, get a pet, ect....

I refuse to be a part of a team that has court cases just to make it 'interesting'.

	28-02-2003 05:00									#12
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I agree we don't need to file cases here.
It would be just like in the USA... full of bullshit.
Ok, we should still have some requirements for the minister positions.
It should be written in the law that they must post
regular polls to maintain their position.
(look at all those polls here now, whoa)


I believe everybody can post official polls,
but it should be a minister-duty to make the demogame work.
So don't just sit and make fine spreadsheets, but go out and ask the people what to do.

	28-02-2003 22:40									#13
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quote: Originally posted by bigfree1 Uh......No, I don't think so; if you're looking for something more interesting; go for a walk, read a book, join a club, get a pet, ect.... I refuse to be a part of a team that has court cases just to make it 'interesting'.

hi ,

a court that is "it would be intresting to have one" , just in case we get some wacko starting with impeachment of half a dozen or so , ....

not to pass our time , ....

we shall have sooner or later things that one or an other does not agree upon , as long as they are justified and within reason , IE not bringing a case on just to make a case its okay , ..

have a nice day

	28-02-2003 23:27									#14
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IMHO we are not in a demo game; we are a team in a probably difficult competition. Therefore, as a minimum of organisation is needed, we should not refer to democratic institutions, but rather to hierarchical models.

By chance, we have in this team many people highly competent in all parts of the game, so the technical aspects will find solutions. The coordination is presently done by the consuls, and if there are disciplinary problems, they should be able to handle them.

In the demo game I was not prepared to accept that our democratic contract was not respected, but in this one it is absolutely clear that we need a competition contract, that is one leader making decisions after hearing qualified advices of the members. I would not object of a duomvirat or triumvirat, provided it behaves as one leader.

	01-03-2003 06:10									#15
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT IMHO we are not in a demo game; we are a team in a probably difficult competition. Therefore, as a minimum of organisation is needed, we should not refer to democratic institutions, but rather to hierarchical models. By chance, we have in this team many people highly competent in all parts of the game, so the technical aspects will find solutions. The coordination is presently done by the consuls, and if there are disciplinary problems, they should be able to handle them. In the demo game I was not prepared to accept that our democratic contract was not respected, but in this one it is absolutely clear that we need a competition contract, that is one leader making decisions after hearing qualified advices of the members. I would not object of a duomvirat or triumvirat, provided it behaves as one leader.

Excellent post! Right on target.

	01-03-2003 14:20									#16
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Yeah... right on, but that doesn't hinder anyone in making more polls.

	01-03-2003 16:57									#17
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat Yeah... right on, but that doesn't hinder anyone in making more polls.

Yes, polls as a form of advice from the members, but no binding polls. As long as the leader(s) is not removed by a CoC, he must decide in the last resort.

	01-03-2003 17:39									#18
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Ok with me. The polls are just the general opinion,
and if that opinion is countered enough time... well, a CoC ?

But look now, there is not much polling going on now, is there?
No problem since we just started to play now, but if it continues to work this way, we must do something about it.

IMHO a CoC is appropriate when the consuls are not capable of running this as a team game and maintaining the team spirit. If they are not capable of creating enough polls to gather the general opinion, we must make all those polls.
So we'll see what they do now...

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 01-03-2003 at 17:46

	01-03-2003 19:28									#19
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat IMHO a CoC is appropriate when the consuls are not capable of running this as a team game and maintaining the team spirit. If they are not capable of creating enough polls to gather the general opinion, we must make all those polls. So we'll see what they do now...

Just to make this clear... the Consuls expect their Ministers to organize most polling. They will organize their own polls in case of a decision affecting more than one area or if they feel the Minister is acting too much on his own...

Unless the Consuls feel that there is an issue worth polling (read: an issue which is controversial enough, with no obviously preferred solution), I do not think there will be too many polls.

The short-term plans are published with the intention of inspiring discussion and possibly expressing disagreement, should anyone feel like doing so. Unless there are people enough opposing them, I do not see any need to poll over and over. This game is going at a pace too fast for polls on short term decisions to be really effective. Polls are likely to be held mostly on mid- to long- term issues, when we will be able to keep them open for at least 48 hours...

	01-03-2003 19:50									#20
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Polls are likely to be held mostly on mid- to long- term issues, when we will be able to keep them open for at least 48 hours...

Yes they are. I forgot to mention that.

Ok. Sooner or later, when the game gets more interesting,
I would expect the consulate (and ministers) to be posting far more polls than has been done lately. Diplomatic attitudes, growth vs. production vs. expansion vs. military, economy and techwhoring and workforce.... ....and surely a lot more.


All these things will be the long/mid term issues we will have to sort out in the time to come, and also... Situations will change dynamically. So about 48-72 hours duration is okay.