23-02-2003 23:03									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Funny how you believe the story of the anti-war protesters. I heard a different take from the actual cops who called into a radio show. The cops were being pelted by things thrown at them.

Yeah, funny, since I know many of the protesters personally and know they aren't liars.

Funny how you believe "cops" calling into a radio show. Let's see who has more reliable first-hand accounts.

	23-02-2003 23:04									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Funny how you believe the story of the anti-war protesters. I heard a different take from the actual cops who called into a radio show. The cops were being pelted by things thrown at them.

Well, Boris stated that he talked directly to someone there. Funny how you take the side of the cops instead...

Perhaps the cops were beign pushy, so the protestors begun throwing things, so the cops got pushier, so forth and so on. My God, has the "balck and white idiocy" spread?

	23-02-2003 23:06									#33
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you guys don't understand.

Protestor use a tactic called "baiting". I suggest looking it up. They have video cameras on hand to try to catch the cops beating a protestor. The cops aren't allowed to be "pushy" for this reason.

And yes I am sure the truth lies in the middle ground. Which means they had no right to hit a police horse.

	23-02-2003 23:08									#34
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its like vault city, and gecko...

	23-02-2003 23:09									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident you guys don't understand. Protestor use a tactic called "baiting". I suggest looking it up. They have video cameras on hand to try to catch the cops beating a protestor. The cops aren't allowed to be "pushy" for this reason. And yes I am sure the truth lies in the middle ground. Which means they had no right to hit a police horse.

Cops use the same tactic, and there are many documented cases of it being so.

All of the first-hand accounts from the NYC protest I have heard stated that the cops got shitty first. They were just waiting for the protesters to push back so they could justify using more force.

	23-02-2003 23:11									#36
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I saw an article in the Wall Street Journal which spoke about the protesters in New York acting crudely, throwing bottles at police officers, and trying to hit cops & harm horses. If I had to choice between Boris's unnamed friends or a reputable national newpaper then I'm sorry but I choice the newspaper.

	23-02-2003 23:12									#37
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Oh, and the police is always innocent and never does anyting... yeah, protestors have strategies, but so do cops. I myslef haven't seen any video of cops being pushy. Somehow the "cameramen" forgot. As for hitting the police Horse, I don;t know the aprticualrs, so i will withhold judgement (which is the main problem with guys like PETA. They make judgements before the fact based on ideology)

On the "carnivore issue". Is this only a fact of endotherms? People eat snakes, snakes are vegeterians.. and they taste like chicken. Also fish: tuna certainly don;t stick to eating algea or zooplankton.

	23-02-2003 23:20									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I saw an article in the Wall Street Journal which spoke about the protesters in New York acting crudely, throwing bottles at police officers, and trying to hit cops & harm horses. If I had to choice between Boris's unnamed friends or a reputable national newpaper then I'm sorry but I choice the newspaper.

That's your mistake. The WSJ is, afterall, a conservative paper with its own agenda (which happens to be pro-war).

The media distorted a lot of things about the protest. One thing that comes to mind right away is that after about 10,000 people had gathered in CP in an impromptu protest, the media reported it as "a handful." Yeah, 10,000 is a handful.

	23-02-2003 23:24									#39
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Anyone with an agenda is untrustworthy. NY public news channels did not speak of too many troubles, and neither did the NYTimes, which after all is a local paper, unlike the WSJ. All and all, given the large size of the protest, things went well.

	23-02-2003 23:26									#40
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I don't really care about PETA, some of their causes are good, some are plain silly. The PETA bashers really crack me up. Especially the ones on 'Poly.

Some like to stereotype the PETA people and they think that all liberals/anti-war people are the same as these loons. It goes to show how ignorant people who stereotype are.

	23-02-2003 23:29									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Protestor use a tactic called "baiting".

BS. It happens occassionally, but believe me, the last thing any protestor wants is to get cracked upside the head with a batton or get a face full of tear gas/pepper spray. It's not as fun as you think we think it is. Great protests are when everyone has a lot of fun and no one gets hurt.

	23-02-2003 23:36									#42
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che, thats the point of baiting, they want to deligitimize their opposition by driving them to the point of physical force, personal consequences be damned. it happens, especially when there are a bunch of hard liner delusional *******s.

	23-02-2003 23:36									#43
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I've been on more protests than you can know. I've never seen anyone bait the cops.

	23-02-2003 23:39									#44
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 che, thats the point of baiting, they want to deligitimize their opposition by driving them to the point of physical force, personal consequences be damned. it happens, especially when there are a bunch of hard liner delusional *******s.

There are a lot of stupid stereotypes out there

	23-02-2003 23:42									#45
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maybe im biased because of my experience in near riotous conditions.

	23-02-2003 23:49									#46
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I don't blame you, everyone is biased by their own experiences. It's a fact of life. But by no means do I think you're stupid MRT144, you simply hold an opinion based on experience. It's completely valid. I would only suggest you broaden your horizons a bit.

	23-02-2003 23:54									#47
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well i did go to the protest in SF on Feb 16. and that was very peaceful (well until a few hours after all the events ended and some hardline *******s decided they would stay, then there was some pepper spray was used) and i was very happy to see that. but che makes it sound like it happens 1/1000 times.

	24-02-2003 00:39									#48
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And with this off topic discourse we see that Dissident's original remark about linking PETA with the anti-war movement was nothing but bad trolling.
With what intent did you come up with this? - trying to discreditate anti-war protests by having this sub-text: "Look, PETA=loons PETA=anti war, thus anti war equals being a loony"? .
We all know (hopefully) that PETA are loons, no matter where we politically stand - period.

	24-02-2003 00:56									#49
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 dissident, dont you think the truth lies somewhere inbetween?

Nope, the protesters were evil baby raping line jumping litterbug commie ungly and bad smelling spawn of satan scum.

Or wait, maybe that was the police.

No, it must be the internet posters.

	24-02-2003 13:25									#50
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In any case I'm sure my statements looked like stereotyping. And I admit it.

I have never seen a pro-war PETA person. Sure sometimes they seem to want to see humans die before seeing an animal die. But that doesn't mean the support war.

I'm sure some exist, but I don't know where.

	24-02-2003 14:25									#51
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Hitler was a vegie and he liked animals.

	24-02-2003 14:29									#52
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd The PETA people are a bunch of ****ing idiots. Oh, we aren't supposed to eat meat? Well here's a question for ya, Einstein: If we aren't supposed to eat it, then why does it taste so good??

hehe, this reminds me of something that happend in college. me and my mate were standing around in the canteen eating burgers, and this girl (who happend to be quite fit) who had been handing out leaflets, walked over to us and started trying to tell us why eating animals was wrong, i said:

me: see, the thing is, if we weren't supposed to eat animals then why are they made out of meat.

girl: well i'm made out of meat, would you eat me?

i looked her up and down and said

me: yeah alright then, best offer i've had all week

i then got a slap, the girl walked off and my mate peed himself laughing

	24-02-2003 14:32									#53
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funny how most of these people tend to be in college. I guess I missed out on a lot by not going to college . I easily am smarter than all these kids with degrees (OK so I'm a bit egotistical here ), but I have nothing to show for all this intelligence .

But I don't think I could put up with the liberal professors.

I'm not a conservative mind you. But I'm definately not a liberal. I was listening to a liberal radio talk show today, and someone said that we invaded afghanistan for the oil

But I have never had someone bad mouth me for eating meat. There are so many cool things I can think to say, but have never had the opportunity. I live in a city full of indulgence. PETA is fairly non-existant where I live. But I imagine they hide out at the university.

	25-02-2003 08:06									#54
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i like meat.

and if meat is murder, well, as dennis leary says, murder tastes pretty f*cking good.

	25-02-2003 09:56									#55
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I always figured that the reason we eat herbivores is that it's cheaper to raise a herbivore than a carnivore, not that it had anything to do with taste/nutrition/whatever.

	25-02-2003 13:04									#56
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I'd have to agree the amount of calores your average farm would have to spend raising food for a lion and then times the time it takes for the lion to become mature wouldn't be cost effective. Plus carnavores tend to be hazardous while a goat or cow just walks meekly into the butcher's shop. Plus many herbavores are herd animals so it's easier to care for them, lead them where you want them, and stuff like that.

I think the key is to be human to animals while they are alive and not to torture or abuse them but at the end of the day they are kept because they taste so darn good. Domestication has also been a good survival strategy for many farm animals since domesticated cows survived while arocks (ancient cows) died out as did the anciestors of chickens and who knows what else. These species as a whole have certainly done quite well since they teamed up with humans even though a good percentage of them are eaten each year.

	25-02-2003 19:04									#57
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Aurochs might be the best deal the human race ever missed. Weighing in at a ton they were much larger than cows. Must have tasted pretty good too as we ate them out of existance...before domestication really took hold in their areas, such as europe and central asia.

Supposedly the last one was seen in Polish forests in the 1700s, but that is doubtful as they hadn't been seen for hundreds of years prior.