23-02-2003 22:19									#1
	1525bc (60): Orders, Results, Discussion Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

post here

	23-02-2003 23:19									#2
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It is popular knowledge, but anyway just to avoid confusions.

Astrologix Slaves move to the forest to help Arnelos Slaves

Last edited by OliverFA on 24-02-2003 at 00:54

	23-02-2003 23:37									#3
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Madrid expedition : N
With those Luxian rumbles on the horizon, we're probably very close to ND's swordsmen stack. We'll try to watch them to see if they're heading North towards the last Lux city (and maybe GoW), or South towards our lands...

	23-02-2003 23:50									#4
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GuObs: South! Protection for workers. White bandit nearby.

	24-02-2003 00:35									#5
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I hate to interject here, but it is most important that Astrologix does not join Arneleos in the chop. to explain I give the entire sequence recommended.

Edited turns 60 thru 66 due to original Madrid build and growth situation. No change to slave actions. Basically everything in Madrid is one turn later, and in turn 65 warrior substituted for spear then back to spear etc in 66 to synchronize for the chop bonus. Note there is an alternate of continuing 2 more Vet Warriors instead of Vet Spear for turns 66 and 67 but must be on something with 20 shields remaining (such as fresh Spear) at end of 67 to utilize the chop bonus collected tween turns. This choice is SMC perogative and planning will adjust to suit

turn 60
Astrologix ne,n,n ending across river in madrid
Arneleos chopping turn 2 of 10
Ruby_Maser begins road turn 1 of 3
Madrid will grow to size 5 tween turns. Spear in 1 put barracks in queue
Barcelona Spear in 3

turn 61
Astrologix nw,w ending across river
Arneleos chopping turn 3 of 10
Ruby_Maser roading turn 2 of 3
Madrid adj wf to 3,4,5,9,18 This gives 10 shields and zero growth Spear just made released to SMC beginning barracks in 4
Barcelona Spear in 2

turn 62
Astrologix begins road turn 1 of 3
Arneleos chopping turn 4 of 10
Ruby_Maser roading turn 3 of 3 to complete
Madrid Barracks in 3
Barcelona Spear in 1

turn 63
Astrologix roading turn 2 of 3
Arneleos chopping turn 5 of 10
Ruby-Maser w to mountain
Madrid Barracks in 2
Barcelona makes Spear releasing the warrior from garrison which heads to Madrid for eventual upgrade. Food now 5 of 20 (too early to begin worker) so begins spear in 10

turn 64
Astrologix roading turn 3 of 3 to complete
Arneleos chopping turn 6 of 10
Ruby-Maser begins mountain road turn 1 of 9
Madrid Barracks in 1
Barcelona spear in 9

turn 65
Astrologix moves e to the mountain
Arneleos chopping turn 7 of 10
Ruby_Maser roading mountain turn 2 of 9
Madrid Barracks complete Begin Vet Warrior in 1
Barcelona Spear in 8

turn 66
Arneleos chopping turn 8 of 10
Astrologix joins Ruby_Maser on mountain road turns 3,4 of 9
Madrid completes Vet Warrior which hangs around for Iron upgrade. Starts Vet Spear in 2
Barcelona Spear in 7

turn 67
Arneleos chopping turn 9 of 10
Astrologix & Ruby_Maser mountain road turns 5,6 of 9
Madrid Vet spear in 1
Barcelona Spear in 6

turn 68
Arneleos chopping turn 10 of 10
Astrologix & Ruby_Maser mountain road turns 7,8 of 9
Madrid completes Vet Spear released to SMC Begins Vet Spear in 1 (incl the chop bonus)
Barcelona Spear in 5

Turn 69
Arneleos begins road turn 1 of 3
Astrologix & Ruby_Maser complete mountain road turns 9,10 of 9 (sorry wasted 1 worker turn)
Madrid completes Spear with the chop bonus reconfig wf for food 3,5,9,18,20 yielding 8 shields +3 food start spear which will change to horse next turn
Barcelona Spear in 4

Turn 70
Arneleos road turn 2 of 3
Astrologix & Ruby_Maser head west to join the Iron roadway gang (and out of this discussion)
Horse appears on build list!
Madrid changes build to Horse in 3
Barcelona Spear in 3

Turn 71
Arneleos road turn 3 of 3 to complete
Madrid Horse in 2
Barcelona Spear in 2

Turn 72
Arneleos irrigate turn 1 of 4
Madrid Horse in 1
Barcelona Spear in 1

Turn 73
Arneleos irrigate turn 2 of 4
Madrid makes Vet Horse released to SMC begins Vet Horse in 4
Barcelona makes Spear which is released to SMC. Food now 15 of 20 just right to begin worker in 5

Turn 74
Arneleos irrigate turn 3 of 4
Madrid Vet Horse in 3
Barcelona worker in 4

Turn 75
Arneleos irrigate turn 4 of 4
Madrid Vet Horse in 2
Barcelona worker in 3

Turn 76
Arneleos moves sw and irrigates turn 1 of 4
Madrid Vet Horse in 1
Barcelona worker in 2

Turn 77
Arneleos irrigates turn 2 of 4
Madrid Makes Vet Horse which is released to SMC and grows to size 6 adjust wf to 3,4,5,9,18,20 producing 10 shields and +2 food current build beyond planning horizon. Since is on 10 shields, it is effecient for anything. (edit) since Iron will be avail next turn consider a 1 turn Vet warrior! (end edit)
Barcelona worker in 1

Turn 78
New Barcelona worker joins Arneleos irrigate turns 3,4 of 4
Sword appears on build list!
Upgrade any warriors present in Madrid!
Madrid build outside horizon
Barcelona makes worker shrinks then grows so should still be size 2. adjust wf to include current irrigation project next build beyond planning window but city will now grow in 10 instead of 20 but with probably less shields.

Planning ends

Last edited by roadcage on 24-02-2003 at 20:10

	24-02-2003 01:37									#6
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roadcage,

your plan is interesting and I support the idea Astrologix slaves building the Madrid-Pamplona road instead of helping chopping the forrest.

But I would Barcelona building our first galley instead of the second spearman.

If the Lego's continent is probably a great landmass, maybe we could discover it with our galley, sailing east, instead of waiting Lego's galley to try to join the Arnelos shown place much later.


Barcelona : no changes

	24-02-2003 01:56									#7
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galley? who is going to give us mapmaking? LegoLand has it but will be far past that build for them to contact and trade. If we study it ourselves it will be too late for this build.

In any event we are looking for a 20 shield thing rather than a 30 shield thing to make the next worker optimal

	24-02-2003 02:10									#8
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roadcage,

Vox and GS could have Map Making too. From the F4 screen, we don't have any tech that Vox hasn't yet.

Let our diplomats work, we can decide it later, even if Barcelona starts building his second spear or something else...

	24-02-2003 02:26									#9
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roadcage, I like your idea. As I said I'm not a big fan of the forest choping feast, and this helps us geting the iron sooner.

However I thing you've forgoten that Madrid should build some warriors instead of spearman to upgrade them to swordman at the right time. Anyway this is decission of the Madrid governor.

	24-02-2003 02:32									#10
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The Roadcage plan is excellent. If there are no objections from the Slave Master, I would like to impliment this new plan.

--Togas

	24-02-2003 02:32									#11
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More planning, this time for the Iron road and the Iron city

Turns 60,61
Visigoth Slaves road turns 2 and 3 of 3 completing

Turn 62
Visigoth Slaves move w,sw
Pamplona grows add wf to tile 2 it is of interest if that shiled is available or corrupted also if we get bonus shields on the growth. Will be making Spear in 1

Turn 63
Visigoth Slaves road turn 1 of 3
Pamplona makes spear starts Settler in 6, or 8 depending on corruption stated above. will use 8 in plan.

Turns 64,65
Visigoth Slaves road turns 2,3 of 3
Pamplona settler in 6

Turn 66
Visigoth slaves move sw
Pamplona settler in 5

Turn 67
Visigoth slaves road turn 1 of 3
Pamplona grows add tile 1 to wf
Settler in 4

Turns 68,69
Visigoth slaves road turns 2,3 of 3
Pamplona settler in 2

Turn 70
Astrologix and Ruby_Maser released from eastern front
moving w,w,nw to Pamplona 19
Visigoth Slaves move sw
Pamplona settler in 1

Turn 71
Astrologix & Ruby_Maser nw crossing river to Saragasso 14
Visigoth Slaves road turn 1 of 3
Pamplona makes Settler moving nw,nw,nw to Saragasso 14 next build beyond planning horizon.

Turn 72
Visigoth slaves road turn 2 of 3
Astrologix,Ruby_Maser,Settler move nw,w,w to Santiago 3

Turn 73
Visigoth Slaves road turn 3 of 3
Astrologix,Ruby_Maser,Settler move sw,sw joining Visigoth

Turn 74
Visigoth,Astrologix,Ruby_Maser move sw to Iron mountain
Settler moves s

Turn 75
Visigoth,Astrologix,Ruby_Maser Iron mountain road turns 1,2,3 of 9
Settler founds Iron City build is beyond planning horizon

Turn 76
Visigoth,Astrologix,Ruby_Maser Iron mountain road turns 4,5,6 of 9

Turn 77
Visigoth,Astrologix,Ruby_Maser Iron mountain road turns 7,8,9 of 9

Turn 78
Iron available to all cities.

	24-02-2003 03:08									#12
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As I said a few posts above, I like Roadcage idea, so no objections about it

Fibrizzo has been running several simulations following my sugestions (hey, that's why I'm called Slave Master!) and the conclusions are that Astrologix Slaves make the time to the Iron Road shorter AND that Arnelos slaves are available to irrigate and help Barcelona grow.

If Saragossa or Pamplona build another worker the road will be connected a few turns earlier (with the three workers doing the job) but this decission has to be done in the next turn. Otherwise it will be too late.

	24-02-2003 04:05									#13
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Pamplona is already set to make the Iron City settler. So that leaves Saragossa. This city will make a spear and grow on turn 65. Add tile 3 to wf. question is do we get the shield or not? So a worker could appear in 68 or 70. In any event a worker here will be best applied to mining 6, then 4, then roading and mining 3 all local tiles. I guess your question is should the worker be placed before the spear?

If so the worker is made this turn. The shield lost by de-pop was corrupted so it really isn't a loss and the city rebounds to size 2 on turn 65. the new worker could join but not work on turn 61, then the rest of the way would be 2 turn road vs 3 turn road. Yes, the Iron would be 2 turns earlier, but at the expense of several movement turns on the new slave. Even if built first, which looks to be a good change, the worker is best applied towards mining local tiles.

And we really need to be thinkng about temples and border expansions especially in the west. If the current Saragossa spear can be deferred, I would want to make it a temple.

	24-02-2003 09:34									#14
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Pamplona: no orders this turn.

I checked the save, and the WF's for Pamplona were not micromanaged as asked on that turn. We, therefore, lost a turn on growing back to size 4. It isn't a gamebreaker, and I'm not pointing it out to be an @sshole. Only for the glory of Spain do I do so.... be an @sshole, I mean

	24-02-2003 15:26									#15
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Excellent plan we got here roadcage.

Continuing this, I think we can build a great army while we continue to expand. (both pretty rapidly) Pamplona can continue popping out settlers while Madrid builds vast offensive forces to backstab the NDevils with.


As I said earlier: We can be the most powerful civ and perhaps even win this game, if we play our cards right. Backstabbing ND is one of the aces.

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 24-02-2003 at 17:16

	24-02-2003 17:08									#16
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Oh what qualms! I have returned to my soldiers only to find a group of savages in our path. To attack them from this mountain to the other would demand such an effort from my troops that I'm not sure I should risk it.
I thus order the Feocalvos to march straight east and take defensive positions and wait for the barbarians to charge down the mountain.

Sergeant Skiff! East!

	24-02-2003 17:59									#17
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LzPrst, I understand your concerns. And it is a quandry. Fortunately, the barbarian will most likely move before the dp can execute your order. And we see in the 1525 save now available from rodgers.com, that you have given a brilliant attack move on the fleeting barbarian! Such intuitive generalship needs to be recognized.

Last edited by roadcage on 24-02-2003 at 18:21

	24-02-2003 18:18									#18
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But that means...THE BARBARIANS WILL ATTACK US!
Prepare a defence! Build a perimeter! Send out a scout patrol! Send one-third of our troops behind that hill! Sergeant Skiff, you go with them! Attack them from behind when they reach our main force! If only we were more mobile! A Horse! My command for a horse!

In case I dont make it, Sergeant Skiff, be ready to march to their position after the battle.
If there are too many casualties, we should rest here and heal those who can still march and fight!

Now get to it!

	24-02-2003 21:58									#19
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Results

I was able to play the save this morning before heading to work.

Army Movement:
spear from Madrid moves NW, W
magyar move NW (Patrol duties should cease. Barcelona spearman is almost ready)
spear near Pamlplona moves NW, NW
GuOps move S to protect worker
Feros move E, engage the barbarians and DO NOT LOSE A SINGLE MAN! The Barbarian camp is located to the north.
Bulgers move NW
Mad Exp moves N (see ruins, ND spear, and ND city border)

Worker Movement:
astro workers NE, N, N (Moving to build Madrid -> Pamplona road)

Saragossa build changed to worker (With Pamplona making two spears, we can afford to build a worker in Saragossa)

Madrid WF changed to max production (spear every 2 turns) Looking at the image now I feel like an idiot, I should have placed a worker on the tile being deforested, as it would have netted us one additional trade. Will fix next turn.

Silks now linked, one happy person in Madrid.

Slider at 60% (lit in 2, 8gpt)

Mil levels still the same.

Writing offered to Lux.

Images posted HERE including an image of Madrid's new WF that will be fixed next turn .... sorry.

--Togas

	24-02-2003 22:17									#20
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Our Non-Agg pact runs out in 8 turns, so we must be on guard and expect the worst. At this point our experts seem to agree, so I have bowed to their opinions. Saragossa's new worker will build mines to strengthen Saragossa's production (assuming, of course, that we are not attacked).

It takes 6 turns for a spear to go from Madrid to Saragossa now ... which will soon be dropped to 5 turns when the Ruby slaves are done. We have 3 spearmen on the Front right now, 2 on the way. We can expect to have 1 more from Madrid, 2 from Pamplona (send a Madrid Spear to cover settler), giving us a grand total of 8 spearmen, 4 in each city. We may end up poprushing Santiago's walls.

Should either city be attacked we will move 3 spearmen from the city that is not being attacked to the city on the frontlines. We will also call in any additional reinforcements available.

Once Pamplona builds the settler for Iron City, we should seriously consider a barracks and horseman build in Pamplona.

Saragossa needs to build a temple, we could use the extra warning. It also needs a barracks so that we can quickly bring in our "scout" warriors to be upgraded later.

Once Madrid is linked is should build horsemen. Once Iron is linked, Madrid should build swordsmen. The Barracks should be slipped in there a turn before the forest is cut. Forest cutting began on turn 59.

--Togas

	24-02-2003 22:27									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Saragossa build changed to worker (With Pamplona making two spears, we can afford to build a worker in Saragossa)

	25-02-2003 17:01									#22
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code:
SCORE:
RP:  90 (=)
ND:  71 (=)
GS:  70 (-1)
GoW: 65 (-3)
Vox: 50 (-8) City lost?
Lux: 11 (+1) +10%!!!!!

CULTURE:
GoW: 144 (+4)
Vox: 143 (+7)
ND:  138 (+4)
RP:  131 (+4)
GS:   98 (+2)
Lux:  97 (+2)