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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > My Name is Howard Dean, and I Represent the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party
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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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My Name is Howard Dean, and I Represent the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party Got spare money?

Who is this guy?

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2...dean/index.html

quote:
On the campaign trail with the un-Bush
Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean blasts fellow Democratic presidential candidates for trying to "me too" the "most dangerous presidency since Herbert Hoover."

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Jake Tapper



Feb. 19, 2003 | BURLINGTON, Vt. -- As we make our way back to his home in Burlington, Vt., after a full day of campaigning in neighboring New Hampshire, Howard Dean -- internist, former Vermont governor, Democratic presidential hopeful -- turns to me and smiles. His eyes brighten mischievously. He has some nasty scoop to share with me.

It's about Howard Dean.

It begins back in August 1991 shortly after Dean, then 43, became governor under tragic circumstances. As lieutenant governor, a part-time job in Vermont, Dean had kept his medical practice, and was in his office performing a physical on a patient when he was interrupted with news that Gov. Richard Snelling, a Republican, had dropped dead next to his swimming pool. That physical would be the last medical act that Dean would perform. Three days later, he would be in Washington, meeting with elected officials as a member of the National Governors Association, whose chairman, Gov. Roy Romer, D-Colo., had quickly assigned him to chair its healthcare task force.

But that's just background; the story Dean wants to tell me happened when he and Romer met with the Democratic House leadership, including House Speaker Tom Foley, D-Wash., Majority Leader **** Gephardt, D-Mo., and others. Dean, he recalls, was brash. He remembers telling Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., the Democrats' leader on healthcare reform, that he "didn't know what he was talking about." Then, he told Foley that healthcare reform was an issue that needed to be tackled, and that the governors were prepared to lead the way.

Foley told him to hold back, that the Democrats wanted to do it at the congressional level.

"Well, why don't you?" Dean asked.

Foley told him that the Democrats, who then held more than a 100-seat advantage in the House, didn't have the votes.

"Well, then let us do it at the state level," Dean said.

Foley told him that he'd prefer if they didn't.

Exasperated, Dean lashed out, saying, "Well, Mr. Speaker, if I were in charge of an organization that had a 25 percent approval rating, I might move on healthcare one way or another."

There was silence in the room. Finally, Foley smiled.

"Actually, it's 27 percent," Foley joked.

Finishing the story, he smiles again. Later, over breakfast at Henry's Diner in Burlington, he says, "It's not a story that reflects well on me. I hope I've matured since those days."


On Face the Nation this morning Bob Schieffer talked about the memorable phrases from election campaigns past: "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?" "It's the economy, stupid." etc. The first memorable phrase of this campaign was uttered yesterday by Vermont gov, Howard Dean.

So where the heck did the Dem's find a man with a back bone?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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You'd think that he'd give Wellstone credit for that line.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Personally, I'm hoping that Gary Hart gets in the race.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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I don't know where they found him, but I like him more than anyone else in the field. Sadly, I think he'll get the same kind of treatment that McCain did from his party.

But I'm all for Dean in 2004!

Timexwatch is offline Timexwatch
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  Old Post 23-02-2003 22:48
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I'm sure he'd make the best Democratic Presidential contender since George McGovern...

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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quote:
Originally posted by Timexwatch
I'm sure he'd make the best Democratic Presidential contender since George McGovern...


Maybe that would be appropriate to go up against the worst Republican president since Warren G. Harding.

Sava is offline Sava
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  Old Post 23-02-2003 23:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I don't know where they found him, but I like him more than anyone else in the field. Sadly, I think he'll get the same kind of treatment that McCain did from his party.

But I'm all for Dean in 2004!

Timexwatch is offline Timexwatch
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  Old Post 23-02-2003 23:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Maybe that would be appropriate to go up against the worst Republican president since Warren G. Harding.


I think it would be more appropriate to say that Dean will be the most successful socialist candidate for President since Eugene Debs

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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  Old Post 23-02-2003 23:29
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Or that Bush will have the most successful re-election campaign since, well, his daddy.

And Dean isn't a socialist by any means. He's very much a moderate, especially fiscally.

Sava is offline Sava
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  Old Post 23-02-2003 23:31
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Dean's a great guy, but he's too honest and idealistic to be running for one of the big two parties... the McCain scenario Boris mentioned is probably the most likely course for him. I'll be rooting for Dean all the way because he'd get America back on track. Strong economy, universal health care, and he'd put a stop to this stupid imperialism that is fostering anti-American hate and terrorism.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 23-02-2003 23:32 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Dean isn't easily catagorized. He's not fully liberal, but compared to what they've had in the Democratic Party leadership for the last 15 years, he's a torch waving revolutionary. Vermonts liberals aren't too happy with him, however, as he's slashed quite a few of their pet projects. They were pissed enough to give the Vermont Progressive Party 10% of the vote for governor last time around.

I just like this guy cuz he's sticking it to the Dems.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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  Old Post 24-02-2003 00:04
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Dean is pro-gun, so he won't get the nomination from the Democrats. You can count the Center for Handgun Control will be on a crusade to prevent him from gettting the nomination. Too much of the democratic party base is fiercly anti-gun to ever nominate Dean-- that is unless he is willing to change his ideals to fit the situation, but if thats the case so much for a democratic with a spine.

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quote:
So where the heck did the Dem's find a man with a back bone?


[cue one-liner]

Vermont

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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  Old Post 24-02-2003 00:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Dean is pro-gun, so he won't get the nomination from the Democrats. You can count the Center for Handgun Control will be on a crusade to prevent him from gettting the nomination. Too much of the democratic party base is fiercly anti-gun to ever nominate Dean-- that is unless he is willing to change his ideals to fit the situation, but if thats the case so much for a democratic with a spine.


THe only problem is that the Democrats have come to realize the gun issue is hurting them, since the fierce anti-gun crowd is likely going to vote Democrat anyway. The GOP used the issue to hammer them all over the South, and one can attribute the loss of West Virginia, a Democrat stronghold, to the gun issue almost solely. That's why Lieberman has been far more conciliatory on the subject.

I'm willing to bet there is more room in the Democratic party for a pro-gun candidate than there is for an anti-gun candidate in the GOP.

monolith94 is offline monolith94
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"Vermonts liberals aren't too happy with him, however, as he's slashed quite a few of their pet projects. They were pissed enough to give the Vermont Progressive Party 10% of the vote for governor last time around."

This isn't entirely true - this isn't a sign that they're mad at him, it's more a sign that Vermont is incredibly, truly liberal. Also Dean isn't "Pro-Gun" per se: he just believes that the rules as they are now are adequate federally, and he believes that states should have the right to make up their own gun control laws.
He came to my college and made a speech, and also stuck around to talk to us kids after. I was actually able to meet him, talk, shake his hand etc. Very good speaker and a very nice guy as well. He has a very honorable and presidential air about him, and he is really serious about this presidential campaign, I feel. I don't think he's doing it just to say that he ran for the presidency - I think he's out for the jugular this year.
Also, in person he looks like the hologram from Quantum Leap. And I think it would be cool to have a president who looks like that.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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The actor playing the hologram is named, ironically, Dean Stockwell.

monolith94 is offline monolith94
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  Old Post 24-02-2003 00:29 Visit monolith94's homepage!
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Suffering from ads?

I know.
I love the part where he sings that song to Frank Booth though... that was so incredibly moody. "In dreams, I think, of youuuuu..."
You know?

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
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  Old Post 24-02-2003 00:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Dean is pro-gun, so he won't get the nomination from the Democrats.


I don't think gun legislation is the hot-button topic for liberals as it is for conservatives. Dems won't use this position as a litmus test, but will look at all of Dean's policies. For example, he was the first governor in the U.S. to legalize homosexual unions.

My concern for Dean is that he has yet to develop the political savvy to successfully navigate the shark-filled waters of national politics. If there were justice in politics, the 2000 election would have been McCain vs. Bradley who were clearly superior to their parties' mediocre standard bearers.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
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  Old Post 24-02-2003 00:44
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No chance for Dean to get the nomination. None.

If he starts to become a threat, the establishment candidates will start hammering him on "family values," cashing in on America's not-so-latent homophobia.

Pity. He'd make a great President.

monolith94 is offline monolith94
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"My concern for Dean is that he has yet to develop the political savvy to successfully navigate the shark-filled waters of national politics"
My question to Dean was actually something like this. He said that he didn't feel coming from Vermont would hinder him politically, and also that he was experience to run a really successful campaign.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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"don't think gun legislation is the hot-button topic for liberals as it is for conservatives. Dems won't use this position as a litmus test, but will look at all of Dean's policies. For example, he was the first governor in the U.S. to legalize homosexual unions. "


Liberals are not a homogenous group. Ya, probably among young, educated, urban liberals like yourself he will be able to survive a pro-gun stance. Among suburban females, gun-control is a big issue and they may well use gun control as a litmus test. If you recall a few years back they had the "Million Mom March" and had a sizable turnout. There is still a good deal of grass roots support for gun control, and you can bet the anti-gun lobby will bring all it's influence to bear to mobilize their grass roots to prevent what would be a nightmare scenario for them, having two candidates who both support gun rights.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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I agree, Shi. The Dems won't pick a pro-gun guy as their nominee. It'd be like picking a pro-life guy as their nominee! Never happen!

Odin is offline Odin
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I am about as liberal as they get, yet I oppose gun contol simply because the people who use guns in crimes will ignore the law anyway. Especially in high crime areas, guns are needed for self defence. My only gun control things I want is the banning or extreme regulation of gun shows, and make sure no one who has commited a feloney with a gun ever gets a gun again.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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Odin, I'm not saying liberals are all for gun control (Communists are very anti gun control). I'm saying the Dems are for gun control .

Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 24-02-2003 at 02:56

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He's not pro-gun in the sense that he's as psychotic as Charleton Heston. He simply doesn't want to ban guns. IIRC he does believe in a gun registration system.

Odin: You can't generalize gun violence. There are many different instances of gun violence. Not all of gun crime is commited by gangsters and "criminals". And that doesn't even begin to take into consideration accidental gun deaths that aren't classified as crime. And many gun-nuts are against the responsible controls and background checks you want.

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"(Communists are very pro gun control). I'm saying the Dems are for gun control"
What exactly are you implying here?

Sava is offline Sava
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Democrats are commies so anyone who suggest gun control is a dirty commie and should be deported.

God Bless John Ashcroft, George Bush, and God Bless America!

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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quote:
What exactly are you implying here?


It was a typo... Commies are anti-gun control, I mean

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Ooooooh... ok! It all makes sense now! I guess I'll have to join the green party to avoid being labeled a dirty commie, dirty hippie, whatever...

Interestingly enough, I've never met a bad smelling liberal. Bad smelling conservatives seem to pop up eveywhere, in my experience...

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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quote:
I've never met a bad smelling liberal.


I see that you've never been to college.

 
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