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broman
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Hi guys,
interesting discussion and possible scenario.
One comment i would like to make is that Nazi Germany was also developing a nuclear bomb. The defeaut of Germany benefitted the American Mahatten Project. German scientists and information was used to speed up the completion.
I seems realistic to assume that Germany produced a nuke before or at the same time as the US (for the scenario say the end of '43 of begin '44). This gives Germany a great weapon to threathen the UK and the USSR and end WWII under their conditions.
This could creatie a cold war/ WWIII situation with 2 or 3 world powers (Germany, US and Japan).
Broman
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Willhelm II
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What would happen if Oswald Mosley, the leader of the British Union of Fascists became leader of Britain in 1937?
Mosley had always opposed a war with Germany, and if Mosley had become Prime Minister (and Dictator) of Britain, then would Britain have joined Germany in a 'crusade for the salvation of our European civilization & culture' against the soviets?
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Jim Winchell
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Louisville, Kentucky, USA
May 1999
time: 05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by jim panse
(2) Neville Chamberlain never went to Munich to negotiate the destruction of Chechoslovakia in autumn 1938 and Hitler guided Europe a year earlier to war. At that moment the German Army, Navy and Airforce outnumbered their allied counterparts by much more than on September 1, 1939. Maybe this would have become a European War were Germany would have won before the US could have intervened. |
I disagree and opine that this might have been the shortest European war had the French and British come the aid of the Czechs in 1938. The Czechs were determined to defend their country, had heavily fortified the Sudentenland (with several forts based upon the Maginot Line-type fortifications), and had a well-trained and well-armed army. Several high-ranking members of the German military were prepared to move against Hitler if the French mobilized and invaded Germany while the German army was tied down invading Czechoslovakia.
The Czechs gave up after being abandoned by their Allies at Munich and losing the Sudentenland--a natural defense belt between Germany and Czechoslovakia. When the rest of Czechoslovakia was occupied in early 1939, the Germans obtained Czech weapons, tanks and materiel sufficient to outfit many new German divisions, including panzer divisions with the Pzkw38-type Czech tanks, that rolled across France in May of 1940.
The only advantage that Germany had over the Allies at any point up to May of 1940 was in air power and tactics.
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Jim Winchell
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Louisville, Kentucky, USA
May 1999
time: 05:26
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It might be interesting to have a scenario where the Nazis lost out to the Communists for the struggle to control the Depression-era German government. Europe in the late 1930s would consist of a weak Germany, torn by internal strife and aligned with the Soviets which would be the primary aggressor. Without Germany to stop them, the Soviets would have a free hand in Finland, the Baltics, Eastern Europe, and the Balkans. Without the aid of Germany (or with a Communist-controlled Germany aiding the Republicans), Spain might still be in the middle of a civil war or Franco may have lost to the Republicans. Europe in 1939 might very well look like it did post-WWII, with the Soviets in control of Eastern Europe and most or all of Germany.
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Willhelm II
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1933
January 30th Adolf Hitler becomes Chancellor of Germany.
1936
March 7 Rhineland invaded by German Troops
1937
May 28th British Fascist leader Oswald Mosley becomes Prime Minister of Great Britain.
1938
March 12th German troops invade Austria.
October 1 Czechoslovakian Sudetenland occupied by German army.
September 29th Germany, Italy & Britain form an alliance: The Berlin Pact.
1939
May 22 Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary & Finland Join the Berlin Pact.
August 23 The Anti-Bolshevik Berlin Pact begins economic sanctions on the Soviet Union.
September 1st Germany Invades Poland.
...What happens next?
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Willhelm II
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quote:
Originally posted by jim panse
some kind of pervert + ugly thing to think of .... |
???
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Willhelm II
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The new Rome-London-Berlin Pact would mean that Hitler would not look to Japan for an Alliance, so it would have no need to declare war on the United States if Japan attacked Pearl Harbour (That is asumming Japan even attacks Pearl Harbour with no Alliance with Germany).
Hitler had always pushed for an Alliance with Britain ever since he became Chancellor, believing it was the duty of 'brother England' to keep order and stability around the world with the British Empire, and the duty of Germany to protect Europe from Bolshveism and secure a position for the so-called 'Aryan race' forever.
Would this alternative Axis have pushed Eastwards passed Poland immediatley to Russia, or would they have waited to consolidate their power?
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26-02-2003 02:22
That´s not the best, you´re right. Hoepner said later that "We could arrest and remove from power a man gone mad leading Germany into a war it cannot win but we couldn´t have arrested a politician negotiating the peaceful return of the German Minority in the Sudetenland into the arms of the Reich with the British Prime Minister".
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