24-02-2003 03:22									#1
	Apolytonian Intelligence (A.I.) Analysis Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Analysis performed with the save files of every turn, and their conclusions. Here we don't explain how we do the analysis. Just give the results and the posible conclusions.

	24-02-2003 03:32									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

code:
Average score analysis
Turn 1:
GC  10
Fir 10
Elu  0
Net 10
Apo 10
Fan 10
Web 10
Gre  0

Turn 2:
GC  10
Fir 10
Elu 10
Net 10
Apo 10
Fan 10
Web 10
Gre 11

	08-03-2003 03:49									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Anything new from the AI?

	15-03-2003 11:36									#4
	Put an end to popups!

I'm sure there are several scenarios that fit what we know about CDG, but here's one.

CDG moved one tile. Their first unit was a 9 turn one (3500BC, turn 10)? This looks like a Spearman, I'm not sure. 2nd unit was 5 turns (3250BC, turn 15). Probably a Spearman too, can't see a Warrior taking this long at 2 pop. 3rd unit was 2 turns (3150BC, turn 17), likely the Warrior we see.

(Turn: Production)

0: 0
1: 1 (using Wheat)
2: 1
3: 1
4: 2 (Mined Wheat)
5: 2
6: 2 (Road Wheat)
7: 3 (2nd pop, 2 food 1 shield tile)
8: 3
9: 3
10: 4 (first unit, Spear) (2nd tile Mined) (21)
11: 4
12: 4 (2nd tile Road)
13: 4
14: 5/6 (3rd pop, no clue)
15: 5/6 (second unit, Spear) (22/24)
16: 5/6
17: 5/6 (3rd unit, Warrior 10/12)
18: 5/6

Last edited by Aeson on 15-03-2003 at 11:54

	15-03-2003 18:21									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Elucidia score from the F8 screen

Looking at the F8 screen that's what can be told about Elucidia's score every turn.

code:

Turn Year   Elu Apo
0    N/A     0   0
1    4000BC  0  10
2    3950BC 10  10 Elucidium founded 
3    3900BC 10  10
4    3850BC 10  10
5    3800BC 10  10
6    3750BC 10  10
7    3700BC 10  10
8    3650BC 10  10
9    3600BC 11  10 Elucidium grows
10   3550BC 11  10
11   3500BC 11  23
12   3450BC 23  23 Border expansion
13   3400BC 23  23
14   3350BC 23  23
15   3300BC 24  23 Grows again
16   3250BC 24  23
17   3200BC 24  23
18   3150BC 24  23

	15-03-2003 18:37									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Elucidia Techs

They have:
- Bronze Working
- Masonry
- Pottery

They miss:
- Alphabet

Source: the F6 screen and the diplo screen

AI Director Oliver F.A.

	15-03-2003 23:01									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Here is an Excel timeline for CDG up to this point. It works right, but I'm sure there are other sequences that fit the data we do have (powergraph, tech values, city growth).

It's a little weird because they grew in 6 turns from pop 2 to pop 3, which would have required 2 turns at 4 food per turn. They must have fresh water. It looks like they Irrigated their Wheat after mining it? They also would have a Forest of some type for the 'free' growth shields.

A second Wheat would work, but I think only if they had a Forest Game tile as well. A Cow and Wheat might work too, but would be very weird for them to leave the Cow unimproved while they were working it.

Research wise, they look to be anywhere from 20-48 beakers into their next tech. Likely Iron Working. The range is from no river tiles, to all river tiles.

timeline

	16-03-2003 04:33									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I've found this over at the public forums at CGD (Persians). This post was by the President of their team. I t might give us some insight as to what they expect to do with the traits they have and what they might do against us based on our traits. It is intersting that he was wanting either Persia or Carthage for their team.

quote: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Joined: 13 Oct 2002 Posts: 1219 Location: England Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:52 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- INDUSTRIOUS - I agree that Industrious is a must-have trait, personally I never play without it in SP let alone MP. EXPANSIONISTIC - I really dont know if we dare take this route, despite the fact it could potentially give us a massive early game boost the risk of it not helping at all make this a real throw of the dice. SCIENTIFIC - Always a really nice one to have if we can, falling behind on tech and having the other civs refuse to tech trade with us could leave us in real trouble. MILITARISTIC - Begs the question, is this game going to end up a slug-fest? If yes then this could be the difference between winning and losing but are any sites likely to go psycho warmonger on us? COMMERCIAL - Like Ghengis said, if we get a nice sized empire up and running then its a beauty of a trait, but are we likely to get the chance to expand to a fair degree? RELIGIOUS - I know some people really love the Religious trait but I must admit its my least favourite, how often are we really likely to change government anyway? My favourite civ has to be Persia with their wonderful Industrious/Scientific trait combo and the mighty immortal, cheap to build and exactly the same stats as the Medieval Infantry but available in ancient times. Second would have to be Carthage with their Industrious/Commercial traits and the wonderfully hard Mercs. Depends on what kinda strategy we gonna be using tho i suppose. Kentonio

	16-03-2003 05:38									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

(Obvious) conclusion: Kentonio probably is inclined to peace and cooperation. If he's saying what he really thinks (I'm sure he is). But this is for now... What do we think about?

	17-03-2003 12:04									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Here's another scoop that I got while in chat with CDG:

CDG hates CFC like the devil; if they are on our Continent count on no cooperation between those two. While I was there a guy named 'CivGeneral' was trying to defect from CFC to CDG. I think they gave him the 'brush off'. But I can't be sure they could've started a private dialog with him. Anyways, this info may be of use to us someday.

Happy Hunting OliverFA!

	17-03-2003 19:13									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hmm... All signs point to CDG genuinely wanting cooperation at this stage. This augurs well for our chances of trading amicably with them, and we shouldn't turn doen any offers without serious consideration.

	17-03-2003 20:01									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by bigfree1 CDG hates CFC like the devil; if they are on our Continent count on no cooperation between those two.

How do you know (apart from the person trying to defect) ..?

	17-03-2003 20:22									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

CDG is a group of modders who split off from CFC about 6 months ago after one of CFC's moderators called them "Nazis" for working on a World War II mod and having avatars with swastikas. Basically there's a lot of anger between them, which can work to our favor.

	17-03-2003 20:36									#14
	Got spare money?

They used swastikas as avatars? Nice neighbors we have

	17-03-2003 20:53									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Trip CDG is a group of modders who split off from CFC about 6 months ago after one of CFC's moderators called them "Nazis" for working on a World War II mod and having avatars with swastikas. Basically there's a lot of anger between them, which can work to our favor.

Now I'm scared.

	18-03-2003 03:45									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Here's another thought related to the 'CivGeneral' incident at the CDG chat. 'CivGeneral' (from CFC) now has a clue that Apolyton ans CDG has made contact since he saw us in the chat together. There were 3 form CDG and 3 or 4 from Apolyton there when he came in (IIRC).

This is a potential 'spying' situation and should be prevented in the future.

The chat wasn't secure. After 'CivGeneral' came in discussion halted once he made a comment because everyone was like "Who's this?" A 'secure' chat was then produced by the CDG team and we went there to finish the talks. We need to take measures to see that this doesn't happen again. I'm not blaming anyone from here for this, but we need to not let it happen in the future.

	18-03-2003 03:51									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius They used swastikas as avatars? Nice neighbors we have

No no, their avatars weren't just swastikas. Some of the units they made and used for avatars had TINY swastikas somewhere on them

	18-03-2003 03:57									#18
	Suffering from ads?

In a certain way, tiny swastikas sounds worse than big ones...

	19-03-2003 00:31									#19
	Support Apolyton

code:
F8 SCORE for turn 20

Elu 27 (+3)
Apo 24 (+1)

	19-03-2003 00:51									#20
	Tired of ads?

Their Capitol is a size 3 (for a bit now); it would be very difficult for them to have built a settler and have that size at this point in the game. While we just grew to size 3 recently and they've had a larger population for longer and thus a higher score average is possible?

Or a hut gave them a settler and they have that extra city now(like OliverFA has said); which would mean they are thin of defense now.

	19-03-2003 00:51									#21
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Nope, in the latest turn thread they are still in the top 5 cities and their capitol has a population of 3, so they haven't founded a new city. So they most likely had to connect to some luxuries.

	19-03-2003 01:02									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Maybe they got a settler from a goody hut?

	21-03-2003 00:47									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

code:
F8 SCORE for turn 21

Elu 27 (=)
Apo 24 (=)

Last edited by OliverFA on 21-03-2003 at 01:40

	29-03-2003 17:05									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I noticed that we're currently 2nd in population (as of turn 29).

We've been growing at max. speed. Apolyton is the #1 city in the world.

Q: how come we're not number 1? I thought GCA might have more population, but their capital city is only size 1.

	29-03-2003 18:26									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

IIRC we concluded from the scores that one of the teams (I'm afraid that I don't remember which ATM) got a settler from a goody hut.

	29-03-2003 19:41									#26
	Remove this text

It looks like 2 teams got those Settlers.

1 city with +3 food has slower overall population growth than 2 cities with +2 food. The only reason we are second at this point is because we seem to be the last team to produce our first Settler. A Settler costs 2 pop, but only returns 1 initially. Once the second city grows to size 2, it starts giving a positive return in that regard.

GCA has or will have their 3rd city very soon. They got a Settler from a hut (the city we found), just recently produced a Settler from their capitol, and obviously have their capitol. Our Granary should catch us up to a non-Settlerhut and non-Granary civ in population by around the 3rd city we found. It will take significantly longer to catch the civs which got Settlers from huts.

Webring also got a Settler from a hut.

	29-03-2003 22:56									#27
	Analysis: Score from the 28 first turns: Suffering from ads?

This images represent the score from the first 28 turns. The meaning of the lines is the following: The doted lines represent the medium score (the one showed in the game screen) and has been divided by 3, the number of the difficulty level. The solid line is taken from the F8 screen, and is the actual score at that turn.

Just the last 25 turns:



Full game:



From this analysis we can now that Gamecatcher founded thier second city near 3400BC (as already was sugested by some members here at the forum) at that their third city has been found 2 turns ago. We can also say that webringiangs and Netatolians are very likely to have also three towns.

Director Oliver F.A.

	29-03-2003 23:10									#28
	Analysis: Culture Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

This is the same analysis, extracted from the F8 screen but for culture. Not much to say yet here because it's very soon in the game. Gamecatcher has the same culture as we have, that's the reason because the black line cannot be seen.

Last 25 Turns:



Full Game:



Director Oliver F.A.

	29-03-2003 23:23									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Webring got their free settler at around 3750 BC (that is early!) and are the most likely candidate to be #1 in population.