24-02-2003 11:06									#1
	Rantz is the strategy guide outdated? Inflate your Upload Space

I've heard a few people mutter on the threads that Prima's official moo3 strategy guide is outdated? Well better than believing heresay I was wondering if I could hear it straight from the horses mouth? Is the strategy guide outdated? If so, whats obsolete?
-Demos

	24-02-2003 11:38									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Its a PRIMA guide (strike one) that was released FOUR MONTHS before the game (strike two). What do *YOU* think?

	24-02-2003 12:23									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There is no point of buying a so called strategy guide created before code cut off. (That 4 month before release thing guaranteed I wouldn't buy it)

It would be useful as a work of fiction to familiarize yourself with some of the major functionality and races in the game.

That's about it.

	24-02-2003 13:06									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

According to Lore Weaver, the data presented in table form is useful. Having the various techs, diplomacy info, and ground combat is all actually useful to him, and he's been playing for a while now.

Don't expect much in the way of strategy; the numbers seem to be largely correct though.

	24-02-2003 15:11									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

From what I've heard, the strategy guide is the only place you will find:

- A listing of all of the technologies in the game and what they do
- A listing of all of the ship weapons in the game and what they do
- A listing of all of the ground combat manuevers in the game and what they do -vs- each other

etc, etc, etc.

Basically, anything beyond the charts in the strategy seems to be utterly useless and I'll bet a number of the charts are useless if the values on them have changed. That said, indication I've seen from a few beta testers is that they use some of that information themselves because (as yet), it's the only place to find it.

Give about 1 month of muddling your way through the dark and GameFAQ will have caught up to speed on making a comprehensive FAQ, nevermind the strategy guide that Orion Sector plans to develop or the strategy forum here at Apolyton.

If you wait about a month or so, you'll probably find more than you could possibly ever expect from a Prima strategy guide here

	24-02-2003 16:34									#6
	Remove this text

I'd hope some of that stuff gets patched into the game. The chief criticism from every reviewer, no matter whether like or dislike the game, is that it is impenetrable. Being able to understand what each new tech actually delivers has to be a priority.

	24-02-2003 16:58									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

im abit worried about not knowing what each tech does

the way it is at the mo don't u even get a little blurb?

ooh and on topic i'd say the answers yes

	24-02-2003 22:38									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The strategy guide also tells you what stances to make in diplomacy. For example, you should always Demand with the Sakkra, and always respond Insultingly.

	24-02-2003 22:40									#9
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by JonahFalcon The strategy guide also tells you what stances to make in diplomacy. For example, you should always Demand with the Sakkra, and always respond Insultingly.

That's the type of thing I want to learn by trial and error. Should be amusing (in a masochistic kind of way).

	24-02-2003 22:42									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

So 13Matt13, what's the story with you over at IGMOO?

	24-02-2003 22:49									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Try Begging and being Appreciative at the Sakkra. Watch how fast they declare war on you. heh

	24-02-2003 23:23									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

"Try Begging and being Appreciative at the Sakkra. Watch how fast they declare war on you. heh"

Hey, just had an idea and I wonder if they do it in the game but it might be cool to mod where MOST of the time a race responds like you want them to but every now and then, for example, you appreciatively beg the Sakkra for something and they love you for it!

	24-02-2003 23:25									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Is diplomacy really such a no-brainer, making you click "aggressive" like a Pawlovian dog every time you talk to Sakkras?

	24-02-2003 23:26									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Does it say anything on Harvesters other than everyone hates them? If they're a bioengineered race breed for killing I'd like to find a small colony to keep under my thumb for ground troops. If you can have a successful diplomatic relationship with them, how do your citizens react?

	24-02-2003 23:47									#15
	Re: Rantz is the strategy guide outdated? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Demosthenes1234 I've heard a few people mutter on the threads that Prima's official moo3 strategy guide is outdated? Well better than believing heresay I was wondering if I could hear it straight from the horses mouth? Is the strategy guide outdated? If so, whats obsolete? -Demos

outdated? No.

Complete? No.

	25-02-2003 00:18									#16
	Remove this text

quote: - A listing of all of the technologies in the game and what they do - A listing of all of the ship weapons in the game and what they do - A listing of all of the ground combat manuevers in the game and what they do -vs- each other

You know, this is the kind of stuff manuals used to do. Isn't the purpose of a manual to tell you how to play a game, and how it works? I swear, its getting to the point where games ship with little PR pamphlets that tell you "Hi! Have a good time!" and expect you to just figure everything out on the fly. Simcity is certainly a notable example, and there's plenty of other games out there shipping with utterly pathetic manuals. I don't think I should be forced to buy a strategy guide because I want to know what the techs I research actaully DO.

But since I haven't seen the manual for moo3, I still have high hopes. It certainly looked thick in that screenshot, but that doesn't neccesarily mean anything. Just look at Robert Jordan's books, 1000 pages and when you get to the end, hardly a damn thing has happened.

	25-02-2003 00:43									#17
	Support Apolyton

quote: So 13Matt13, what's the story with you over at IGMOO?

Im an enemy of the state. Like it matters.

	25-02-2003 02:05									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by 13Matt13 Im an enemy of the state. Like it matters.

If it's any consolation Matt, you are the reason I started hangin out here....

Missed your style and input...

-P

	25-02-2003 02:41									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The manual tells you what everything does. The Strategy Guide tells you how to play.

	25-02-2003 04:25									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

And those charts would probably be outdated since betatesting (and later patching) would rpobably chnage some numbers.

P.S.
Remeber Civ3 Manual and units charts?

	26-02-2003 02:03									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by JonahFalcon The manual tells you what everything does. The Strategy Guide tells you how to play.

You just contradicted earlier posts, besides, shouldn't the MANUAL tell you how to play at a minimum? (How to play the games and strategy are two different things.)

Arnelos mentioned:

quote: From what I've heard, the strategy guide is the only place you will find: - A listing of all of the technologies in the game and what they do - A listing of all of the ship weapons in the game and what they do - A listing of all of the ground combat manuevers in the game and what they do -vs- each other

That sort thing really SHOULD be in the manual. The strategy guide should be strategy only, you shouldn't need to purchase other books just to get the basic charts and descriptions of everything in the game...

A hideous trend. Now MoM, that had a great manual and the extras, with the spell book and all. Althought the Strat Guide for MoM was also the BEST Strat Guide ever...

	26-02-2003 02:07									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If I recall correctly the MoO2 Manual (longlost since ) contained no tech Info although manymany other interesting Data

	26-02-2003 03:50									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Actually, we can thank Prima for the execrable state of game manuals too. When they enter into an "exclusive" deal to do an official strategy guide, it includes a kickback to the game publisher for each guide sold. Hence an economic incentive to make the manuals inadequate.

The really sad thing is that Alan Emrich got his start doing deep strategy guides for games (XCOM and MOO, in particular) and yet the game he led the development of gets a Prima. (I like that, a nice compact word for "crappy book sold as useful information. Maybe it will catch on...)

	26-02-2003 05:49									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by darcy Is diplomacy really such a no-brainer, making you click "aggressive" like a Pawlovian dog every time you talk to Sakkras?

My thought as well, darcy. If it is so rigid it could have been 'abstrated'. Perhaps an ambasador would speak for you - and to have fun in the early game when no one knows how to react properly to new races there could be some severe mix ups. Accidentally nice to the Sakkra, overbearing with the hoo-mans.

	26-02-2003 05:56									#25
	Remove this text

What would be totally ideal is that racial tendencies change with each game. One time the Sakkra appreciate aggression, the next obedience, the third succinctness. Have it be slightly clear via the diplomatic graphics, and vary it a little bit so that there's some thinking going on.

But then, you'll just get good at doing the animations, and you'll be fine. And it'll be another tedium.