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Dominae
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I apologize sincerely for not attending to my duties here as ambassador to Lux Invicti. I've been caught up with the Intersite game, which is taking up most of the Civ-time I have between study sessions.
I'm happy to contact Lux regarding a few issues, but I confess I'll have to be brought up to speed about what is going on. Most of the what's been going on with Lux has not been officially documented here (mostly my fault, I guess).
Specifically:
1. What is our stance on their teleportation trick? Are we angry, welcoming, something else? Are we going to milk them for all they're worth?
2. How are we going to go about getting their world map? As far as I understand, we're not happy about Lux being here? Are we going to befriend them only until they cough up their map?
3. Do we have any plans yet concerning Lux's presence? Are we going to jump into Portia after all? From the screenshots I cannot tell which units are Voxian and which are Luxian.
4. Roughly, what is our relationship with the other teams, in light of this new development with Lux? Are they angry at us because we're offering "safe harbor"? Do they expect us to destroy Lux?
5. What about the Iron? Are we going to confiscate it or not?
I sense that there are no definitive answers to these questions yet. Thus my communication with Lux would be pointless right now, as I have nothing of substance to convey. Discuss!
Dominae
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Dominae
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One thing I'm inclined to include in my next message to Lux is a "let's cut the bull, what happened to you guys on the mainland" type of question. Lux's greatest resource right now is information.
Dominae
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zeit
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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The consequences of their presence could prove dire- we must maintain full control of the situation. I have made a list of demands to Vox, and now i think it will be appropriate to serve this list to Lux, while Vox is also present and fully aware of the agreement being made:
1) Lux will have no army- only workers or settlers, who are not allowed to cross the border into GS territory, according to the border treaty- no scouting is allowed. Lux may built a galley for scouting and settling a city on another continent, after which Portia will be taken back by Vox.
2) Lux will not connect the Iron resource, as it was agreed to be under GS. If GS needs iron, Vox or Lux will supply it with (in that event, LI is allowed to connect the Iron).
3) GS has the right, like Vox has, to post military units to monitor the Luxian activities in Portia.
4) Lux will share with Vox and the GS its WM, as well as gold reward. The GS will also lose power in the region, as a result of the cultural pressure from Lux's palace on the border.
Edit- i havn't seen Beta's new message regarding Lux's agreement to honor the border treatment, so things have been changed accordingly.
Last edited by zeit on 24-02-2003 at 23:56
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Dominae
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Ok, I will send them a message this afternoon sometime, latest after supper.
Dominae
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Dominae
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I thought we we're agreed to extort them...in which case a note would be most useful. Do we not want at least their map?
Dominae
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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Were I playing solo, this is what I would put forth, with friendly yet guarded tones of course...
1. Lux is allowed 1 Spearman as garrison should the boats come across the waves. This Spear will be stationed outside of Portia so that we can verify there are no other units. We could allow them 2 Spear, but under the same terms; stationed outside of the city unless and until bad guy boats show up.
2. Lux does not settle any other sites on this land mass.
3. Lux gifts us their map once MM is discovered (we will give it to them).
4. Lux will give us any tech that they may have or may discover while they control Portia.
5. We reserve the right to station troops anywhere in Lux territory. We will block the road to the North.
6. If Lux steps one foot outside their territory without our explicit consent, we will destroy their units and occupy Portia.
7. If any Lux boat ever sails South of Portia, we will sink it and occupy Portia.
8. No tech is traded to Lux without our expilicit consent which may be withheld at our whim.
9. If this agreement is breached, we will occupy Portia and keep it. Vox accepts this.
10. The Iron South of Portia belongs to GS. We reserve the right to build a city adjacent to it. In the unlikely event that this city ever flips to Lux, Lux will immediately and without delay gift that city back to GS on the very turn that they gain it. Failing to immediately offer it back to us with the gift pre-accepted by Lux will be followed by our immediate occupation of Portia.
These terms must be accepted by both Vox and Lux before we will state that we are content with Lux' presense on our land mass. [What do we call it again?] If anything happens to make us take Portia, for any reason, it is ours to keep.
Item 6 edited.
Last edited by notyoueither on 25-02-2003 at 04:45
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Dominae
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Do we have the military might to back up these demands, as of now? I mean, we can definitely take them out, but I'm not big on wasting the gold on an upgrade just to remove a lousy pop-rushed Spearmen. Or are you hoping they'll assume we can back up our demands?
Dominae
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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nye, I agree on all counts. Maybe we can make them sound a bit more friendlier, though 
Things I would additionally go for: world map the turn they get MM, but also screenshots now of everything they see. Including a screenshot of their treasury, or F1 screen. If they have money left, they are not required to give it to us, but are not allowed to give it to Vox either.
And lastly: get the hell off our continent asap, meaning if possible prebuilding a galley.
One other note, which I saw mentioned here numerous times: sure, we can keep our part of the deal secret, but any other civ that has contact with Lux can buy an embassy, and know the precise whereabouts of their capital. Lux will have very little time, and would do best to speed things up. Further, it will be very hard for them to settle a city elsewhere, as their defense will only get smaller as opposed to possible invasion parties. One galley of swords can take out a single spear, and a galley can most likely reach them within 10 turns of settling their new home...
I don't have any ethical problem with taking them out now or in case extortion fails, for the simple reason that they may think they're smart, but in reality they're only postponing their death. The problem is Vox: if we take them out without at least extorting them, we have to deal with a Vox that has won a lot of gold (maybe we can ask for how many gold Vox got too), but lost a city. Not a very promising idea
DeepO
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
Do we have the military might to back up these demands, as of now? I mean, we can definitely take them out, but I'm not big on wasting the gold on an upgrade just to remove a lousy pop-rushed Spearmen. Or are you hoping they'll assume we can back up our demands?
Dominae |
Yes, and no.
We currently have a couple of Warriors who could most likely take a fortified Spear. We could have a Vet Sword very soon.
The point is not whether we can do this now, the point is that we will prepare whatever it takes to occupy Portia if we are not comfortable with the terms of their 'visit'. They certainly would not be able to out build us on the military front.
The important bit is to make it clear that we are uneasy with how rapidly this deal was done between Vox and Lux. It upset the balance of power in our region. We are willing to stand down and not reassert the status quo if they assure us that we can believe what we have been told.
All of the terms mentioned simply take Lux at their word and make it clear what will happen if they are being deceitful, except for the Map and tech clauses. As for those clauses, we are offering to give them Writing and Map Making to speed them on their way. Again, that would be taking them at their word. In exchange for their refuge on our borders and the tech we will give them. we are asking for a small benefit.
If they decline, then their words are worthless, and we should destroy them.
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Dominae
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I'm up for such a chat; I should be online most of the evening.
Dominae
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Dominae
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I like them, except:
1. Start with one Spearmen, settle on two if necessary.
5. I think we can give them a bit of slack here. Let's say something like: "Other than the Iron, we will leave your lands alone, but know that we have you surrounded and will not hesitate to march in at the first sign of something fishy".
8. Sounds a little strong too. Let's propose it, but I'm willing to let this one go. No one wants to trade with them anyway...I see no way of enforcing it, really.
Dominae
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24-02-2003 18:44
). 
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