24-02-2003 20:30									#1
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This is good news.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/homepage/in...and/2782987.stm

I hope they make him eat pork

	24-02-2003 20:39									#2
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quote: One tape, Jihad, contained the words: "So you go to India and if you see a Hindu walking down the road you are allowed to kill him and take his money, is that clear?"

Good riddance to bad rubbish

	24-02-2003 21:03									#3
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Where is the line between freedom of speech and, uh, "soliciting murder?"

	24-02-2003 21:13									#4
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about here:

quote: One tape, Jihad, contained the words: "So you go to India and if you see a Hindu walking down the road you are allowed to kill him and take his money, is that clear?" He also said it is permissible to use chemical weapons to kill unbelievers. In a tape called Rules of Jihad, thought to have been made before September 11 Al-Faisal told his audience: "You have to learn how to shoot. You have to learn how to fly planes, drive tanks and you have to learn how to load your guns and to use missiles."

lets hope he goes down for a very long time

	24-02-2003 22:27									#5
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Good, and they should feed that Abu Hamza to a ticking crocodile

	24-02-2003 22:29									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Where is the line between freedom of speech and, uh, "soliciting murder?"

Easy.

"Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder. Free speech is when you tell people anything except that committing crimes is okay.

	24-02-2003 22:37									#7
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quote: "Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder.

So Poly posters that say we should kill Saddam are guilty of 'soliciting murder'?

	24-02-2003 22:38									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Easy. "Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder. Free speech is when you tell people anything except that committing crimes is okay.

I wonder if the same is true in the U.S. AFAIK, it is illegal to encourage people to commit a specific crime (i.e., "Kill John Smith!"), but I don't know if it is illegal to encourage non-specific acts (i.e. "Kill Whitey!").

	24-02-2003 22:38									#9
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Yes. Good luck trying to get anybody to prosecute.

	24-02-2003 22:39									#10
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quote: I wonder if the same is true in the U.S. AFAIK, it is illegal to encourage people to commit a specific crime (i.e., "Kill John Smith!"), but I don't know if it is illegal to encourage non-specific acts (i.e. "Kill Whitey!").

It certainly is here.

We also go too far, IMO and ban all speech that promotes hatred based on race, sex, etc.

	24-02-2003 22:39									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: "Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder. So Poly posters that say we should kill Saddam are guilty of 'soliciting murder'?

I'd rather see Saddam taken care of by his own people. And I'd rather see him put on trial for crimes against humanity. That would end his "martyrdom" real quick. He and Noriega can be cellmates.

	24-02-2003 22:49									#12
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Boris, I agree that in the US, this guy would be allowed to say what he is saying because it is a non-specific crime he is advocating.

	24-02-2003 23:06									#13
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Then he should move to America. The Land of the Free Great Satan.

	24-02-2003 23:59									#14
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quote: "Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder. Free speech is when you tell people anything except that committing crimes is okay.

Are you saying that advocating criminal acts shouldn't be legally protected speech?

	25-02-2003 00:04									#15
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Not to say that all speech advocating criminal acts should be legally protected, but this shouldn't automatically make speech non-protected.

	25-02-2003 03:25									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Are you saying that advocating criminal acts shouldn't be legally protected speech?

Yes.

	25-02-2003 03:39									#17
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Those were nice juicy morsels of quotes, but those don't seem to show a true solicitation of murder. I doubt he would be convicted by jury in the US, even if it were against the law.

	25-02-2003 03:56									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui So Poly posters that say we should kill Saddam are guilty of 'soliciting murder'?

Actually, since capital punishment is legally-sanctioned murder, killing Saddam would be murder.

Now, if we killed him because resistance has made capture and imprisonment impossible, I can see that being justified.

	25-02-2003 04:00									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Yes.

	25-02-2003 04:03									#20
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Which Yes?

Saddam or speech becoming illegal by its advocacy of illegal acts?

	25-02-2003 04:06									#21
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quote: Those were nice juicy morsels of quotes, but those don't seem to show a true solicitation of murder. I doubt he would be convicted by jury in the US, even if it were against the law.

quote: "So you go to India and if you see a Hindu walking down the road you are allowed to kill him and take his money, is that clear?"

I'm not sure who has jurisdiction here (UK or India), but this quote seems to solicit murder (unless it is taken out of context)...

	25-02-2003 04:08									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger speech becoming illegal by its advocacy of illegal acts?

	25-02-2003 04:09									#23
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I don't see the problem with this.

AFAIK even "soliciting mischief" is a crime around here...

	25-02-2003 04:14									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger I don't see the problem with this.

Everyone should have the right to speak whatever they want. Even if it is violence and hate.

	25-02-2003 04:15									#25
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Hate yes, violence no.

That's why conspiracy to commit murder is a crime, even if the murder is never actually attempted.

	25-02-2003 04:17									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Hate yes, violence no. That's why conspiracy to commit murder is a crime, even if the murder is never actually attempted.

When its directed at one certain person, I'll agree with you. If its directed at a group of people (blacks, russians, etc) then I disagree with you.

	25-02-2003 04:20									#27
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Why? If I offer to give you 5000$ to kill a random black person is it any less a crime than offering 5000$ to kill a particular black person?

	25-02-2003 06:13									#28
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quote: since capital punishment is legally-sanctioned murder

No it isn't. Murder is unlawful killing. Capital punishment being lawful, by nature, cannot be murder.

	25-02-2003 07:18									#29
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I read a book about this mercenary in near Bosnia who dipped his bullets in pigs grease, so every mujahedin fighter he shot wouldn't get to paradise.

	25-02-2003 07:23									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Why? If I offer to give you 5000$ to kill a random black person is it any less a crime than offering 5000$ to kill a particular black person?

But thats not speech (well it is.....you know what I mean). If I say "Death to the Blacks!" I should not be arrested. If I try to kill a black, then yeah I should be arrested.