24-02-2003 21:50									#1
	Fast Unit Retreat Question? Get a bigger avatar today!

What are the deciding factors for a fast unit retreating? I know it has to be against a slower unit but I still lose plenty of horsemen to archers when they look like they could have retreated.

I thought the one exception was when you get both units down to 1HP each but that doesn't seem to be that case.

So... What are the other reasons a faster unit will not retreat on defense OR pull back an failed attack?

	24-02-2003 21:59									#2
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the better "trained" they are, the more chance they've got.

conscrpit 22%
regular 35%
veteran 50%
elite 66%

* numbers aren't correct, just an indicator. You can find the correct ones in the editor *

btw: it's not slower unit, only against units with a one point movement.
So cavalry will not retreat from horsemen/tanks etc...

	24-02-2003 22:07									#3
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Just luck of the draw, and the combat level of the unit. There's a certain percentage that you'll find in the editor under the Combat Experience tab. A Conscript has a 34% chance of retreating, whereas an Elite has a 66% chance.

Oh yes, I'm not entirely positive, but it looks like if there's a unit directly behind the fast unit, then it can't retreat.

	25-02-2003 10:27									#4
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Hmmm, now I just wish that Firaxis would allow units to be able to retreat if their movement rate is 1 or more greater than the unit than they are attacking .
Oh well, guess we can always live in hope!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	25-02-2003 10:40									#5
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Hmmm

I've always found that my units retreat when they still have a unit of movement left, and usually die when they don't.

Guess this is coincidence

	25-02-2003 10:58									#6
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No Coincidence. If I understand correctly, you HAVE to have 1mp left in order to retreat.

The_Aussie_Lurker.

	25-02-2003 15:37									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Hmmm I've always found that my units retreat when they still have a unit of movement left, and usually die when they don't. Guess this is coincidence

Your units only retreat or die?

Who are you playing? France?

	25-02-2003 15:41									#8
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Haha... no chanses of winning. A good one

	25-02-2003 20:25									#9
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No movement points remaining needed in order to retreat -- a 3-move cavalry can move 2 tiles into enemy territory, attack, and still retreat. If the defender has only 1 HP left, the unit won't retreat. If the defender is also a fast-mover (more than 1 mp) the attacker won't retreat -- just needs to be fast-mover, does not need to be "as fast" as the attacker -- i.e., a cavalry won't retreat from a tank. If the above "base conditions" are met, a die roll (and the chances listed above depending on training level of the unit) will determine whether it retreats or not.

Catt

	25-02-2003 21:21									#10
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One more point, when defending, fast units DO NOT retreat when fortified!!! Or are down to their last HP as pointed out by Catt

	25-02-2003 21:43									#11
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Your units only retreat or die? Who are you playing? France?

actually in my latest game YES! Do you think that has something to do with it??

I was just exaggerating, they do win more often than not, its just that my retreat % seems to be much higher than what the editor says.

	25-02-2003 22:15									#12
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quote: Originally posted by alva One more point, when defending, fast units DO NOT retreat when fortified!!! Or are down to their last HP as pointed out by Catt

Are you certain about fortification preventing retreat? I seem to recall my mountain-entrenched Impis scooting away when things went bad.... I, too, have noticed that units DO seem to retreat more often when they have movement left that turn; quite a bit more often, in fact. We've also heard that enough to suggest there might be something there...

I'm know enough math to do it, but I don't have the time, nor do I have the patience for the testing that would need to be done. Someone want to step up for the good of Knowledge and run 50 or so tests on each variable?

	25-02-2003 22:36									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon I, too, have noticed that units DO seem to retreat more often when they have movement left that turn; quite a bit more often, in fact. We've also heard that enough to suggest there might be something there...

Someone did a test under vanilla civ v1.29 (IIRC) over at CFC that showed pretty clearly that whether or not a a movement point was available, a fast unit would retreat in accordance with the expected percentages. IIRC, they modified an MI to have a huge defense, and then sent cavalry on the attack from both two tiles and one tile away -- the retreat frequency was statistically the same.

Catt

	26-02-2003 03:59									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Catt Someone did a test under vanilla civ v1.29 (IIRC) over at CFC that showed pretty clearly that whether or not a a movement point was available, a fast unit would retreat in accordance with the expected percentages. IIRC, they modified an MI to have a huge defense, and then sent cavalry on the attack from both two tiles and one tile away -- the retreat frequency was statistically the same. Catt

Catt, I don't recall it happenning as often in 1.29 as it does in PTW1.14. It does seem to happen more now.