25-02-2003 00:34									#1
	How will we react on Luxes arrival? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Be friendly neighbors? Extort them? Wipe them out? Or what? This is a quick poll, only 1 day, as we don't have much time.

	25-02-2003 01:13									#2
	Remove this text

I'd prefer to take the city w/o opposition. However, since they will most likely poprush a spearmen upon our warrior's approach, I vote extortion.

-Arrian

	25-02-2003 01:30									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Same here, for the same reasons.

	25-02-2003 01:35									#4
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I'd prefer an option that isn't on the poll.

Extort, then kill them. Take no prisoners.

	25-02-2003 01:46									#5
	Got spare money?

In that case I suggest that you vote extort. I'm getting the impression that everyone, or at least an overwhelming majority, wants us to kill off Lux, either right now or later. I for one prefer to extort them first and kill them shortly after they're no use to us anymore (perhaps in exchange for some sort of small payment from ND, in case they'd want to tie their loose ends), and I gave my vote to the 'extort' option.

	25-02-2003 01:59									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

Extort them, politely.

This is a chance to gain a friend who will be inconsequential in the course of major events (ie. they won't be able to hurt us) but who could be very useful as an extra set of ears and eyes if they were friendly to us later once they get set up on their island.

Plus, blowing in and destroying them could have unfortunate diplomatic effects with Vox. Our leaders are steering us to build, build, build. We do not want to precipitate any wars we are not prepared for.

	25-02-2003 02:14									#7
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I don't like the presence of Lux. Prepare for war and wipe them out. If we believe the other teams, Lux has a reputation of an unreliable trade partner and a sneak attacker. Thanks for such friends. Vox will have got what they wanted and won't care much. Perhaps they're even happy with the disappearance of Lux. Additionally, they promised to wait for our decision and have broken this.

Unfortunately, due to lack of balance, we are militarily weak. The capture with a single warrior won't succeed. We should force them to poprush a spearman though, to weaken them. We probably won't need more than 2 or 3 swordsmen to take the city, though, unless Vox interferes (hardly!)

	25-02-2003 02:37									#8
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If I understand the timeline correctly, a unit pop-rushed one turn is not available until a player's following turn. Someone needs to test that, though, in a hotseat or PBEM game.

Assuming I'm right, one of two things will happen.

Possibility 1: Lux sees Hack and pop rushes a defender this turn, either in response to the potential threat Hack poses or just as a matter of general principle. That would result in the city's shrinking from size 2 to size 1. If that happens, war with Lux would take a while to gear up for and would be less than cheap when it happens. If that happens, I suggest that we firmly but politely request compensation for the extra security concerns Lux's presence causes, both the at least theoretical possibilities for what they might do and the risk that their presence will attract hostile civs from Bob.

Possibility 2: Lux doesn't pop rush a defender this turn. If that happens, and if I'm right about how the game mechanics work, Lux could start a pop rush but wouldn't actually have the unit until it's too late. In that case, we would have three options. One is the "firm but polite request" approach without an overt threat attached. The second is to move Hack right next to their city and tell them the city is ours, with nothing they can do about it, unless they meet our demands. (The catch is that they might renege once they have a spearman to defend the city.) The third possibility is to simply go in and take the city without any negotiations.

As I said, if I'm right about how the game mechanics work, we'll know by the city's pop size next turn whether or not they've started a pop rush in time to protect against an attack from us. We need to test that, and if I'm right, we need to make plans based on both possible outcomes. If I'm right about the game mechanics, our choices depend too much on what Lux does in their turn for us to lock in on a single plan irrespective of their choice.

Nathan

	25-02-2003 03:16									#9
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Extort+ plus making sure they have no military- and also no scouting of our land, and that we are allowed to have troops in their territory, like Vox has... (note the spearman). A single, or mostly two veteran swordsman, which are needed anyway, could finnish the job should Lux decide to break these conditions.

	25-02-2003 04:31									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

Nathan, I don't know if I posted it before you or not, but I reached the same conclusions. If not poprushed already, all defenders would be late.

Further, one more thing to consider: if they pop-rushed in their first turn, they could only have gotten a warrior out of it. They had no shields in that city, so poprushing would cost double, and they only could have gotten 10 shields worth. Seeing the risk Lux is willing to take, I doubt it, they will leave that city undefended if they have a shot at it.

So, let's extort them, and knowing their previous diplo relations, let's make absolutely sure they keep their promise, or at least get as much out of them as possible. Plus include a very clear and precise deal: for one, I would include the demand that they do not build any military units, only 1 settler and 1 galley are allowed, and the city needs to be gifted back to Vox the turn they build their galley.

DeepO

	25-02-2003 04:34									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

And I kind of agree with Zeit: could we upgrade our vet warrior into a sword, and move him towards the mountain South of the city? One sword would already be quite a guarantee, if we want to enforce no Lux troops on our continent: if they build or rush a reg spear, a vet sword would make a big enough chance to them not risking the attack.

DeepO

	25-02-2003 05:31									#12
	Tired of ads?

Extort, and let them build a Settler and Galley.

But, when the time comes, why should the Voxidiots get Portia back?

	25-02-2003 05:39									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

I just ran a hotseat test and confirmed that the pop-rushed unit doesn't show up in time.

	25-02-2003 05:48									#14
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Theseus, you bring up a good point... the only real reason is that we have a border city with them, but this reason is rather slim.

Would it be possible to demand the razing of the city once Lux is ready to leave? Kind of harsh, though.

DeepO