25-02-2003 11:42									#1
	Deal with Lux, Presented for ratification Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

NYE, Dominae, Theseus, and I had a nice chat with Lux, and we worked out a tentative agreement that not only offers significant potential gains but also leaves our team and theirs on good terms. The key points of the deal is as follows (quoting from where we recapped it in the chat log, warts and all). Do we want to ratify this agreement? (It could give us a nice chunk of gold, but could force us to research Map Making ourselves if we can't obtain it from another team on terms that allow its resale. On the other hand, if we don't make the deal, we can expect the gold to go to our rivals.)

quote: [22:59] < nye_Gone > 1. Lux will move no unit more than 1 tile from Portia. That means adjacent. [22:59] < Trip > LoL Dominae [23:00] < nye_Gone > 2. Portia will be left ungarrisoned so that we can verify your forces. [23:00] < nye_Gone > 3. Vox will be limited to one defensive unit in your territory, plus however many workers they see fit to send. [23:01] < nye_Gone > 4. Lux will not sail South from Portia. [23:01] < nye_Gone > 4a. Lux will not approach the Southern lands from another direction. [23:02] < Dominae > That's not review. [23:02] < Trip > 3a. GS will never move a unit adjacent or closer to Portia [23:02] < nye_Gone > yes [23:03] < nbarclay > 4a is clarification to close a possible loophole. That's a legitimate function of review. [23:03] < Trip > don't ask me how we'd approach GS from any direction but south [23:03] < Dominae > I'm fine with it, but it's not what we discussed. As long as Trip is okay with it. [23:03] < nye_Gone > 5. Writing and MM will be purchased from GS for 150 gold and the Lux map. [23:04] < nbarclay > Lus WORLD map. [23:04] < nbarclay > Lux [23:04] < nye_Gone > yes. Lux World Map. In game. [23:04] < Dominae > Yeah, not the 9-tile one...(sorry!) [23:04] < Trip > LoL

Edit: Note that 150 gold and the Lux world map is the total price for the two techs. It will be paid something along the lines of 50 for Writing and 100 for Map Making or, if Lux goes along with what I pushed, 60 and 90 (with the map, obviously, coming as part of the second stage).

Also, there was an understanding that we would provide Map Making within 20 turns, so we'd need to either trade for it or start researching it fairly quickly.

	25-02-2003 12:17									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

They also agreed to gift us HBR as a good faith gesture.

	25-02-2003 12:33									#3
	Got spare money?

It sounds like you got us a good deal ... assuming Lux keep to their word, which is something they don't have a good track record of. But at least in this situation we can squish them easily if they start messing us around - so I think they'll play fair.

	25-02-2003 13:16									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

Good work

How do we explain this to the other continent if they happen upon the city or the galley as it crosses the channel? Show them pics with it in vox colors and named dissidentville?

How long will it take for them to build one settler, one spear (or warrior) and one galley? The longer they are here, the more likely the ruse is to be discovered.

edit: of course, anyone with half a brain will figure out after a few turns exactly what happened, once they scour the lands for a settler.

	25-02-2003 13:18									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

After the team collectively decided to let Lux live, this deal is probably the best we can get. I approve it.

	25-02-2003 14:15									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Excellent deal. We get all that we wanted, without looking like extortionists and with no bloodshed.

	25-02-2003 15:15									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

oh... damn, posted in the turn thread before reading this. Seems fine, for the moment. I would have asked for a full screenshot of what they already can see, as a guarantee that we're going to get their map.

as to MM: GoW will get it within 20 turns, why not start a deal with them instead...

DeepO

	25-02-2003 19:47									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Fine by me. We got money & the map (which is potentially a very big deal) and they present zero threat.

-Arrian

	25-02-2003 20:48									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

hmm, the only way I see them getting this approval from Lego, is that Lux will provide with them techs.
Something that will probably hurt us.
IMHO Lux is still doing the same thing (aquiring/selling tech) they have been doing all along.
They just changed partners...

How else are they going to pay for alllllllll of this!!!

Wouldn't it be easier btw, if they use the same trick with Lego as they did with Vox (change cities)?

	25-02-2003 20:49									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: I would have asked for a full screenshot of what they already can see, as a guarantee that we're going to get their map.

My feelings excactly!!!!!

	25-02-2003 20:57									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Alva, one problem: they need contact with lego before swapping cities. And nobody has contact to lego yet...

DeepO

	25-02-2003 21:11									#12
	Support Apolyton

Ah yes, true, ah, hmm

	25-02-2003 21:13									#13
	Put an end to popups!

Just a thought, how about taking the galley out once the settler is in the boat and Vox has recaptured the city?

No one even would know it was us.

	25-02-2003 21:32									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

alva is

	25-02-2003 21:51									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Quite evil Alva.
I don't see how this could benefit us though. Whereas, telling GoW where the heck Lux is located/relocating to in exchange for money would be evil AND beneficial.
Have we sworn secrecy? Is there any limitation on whether and when we can tell another team about this?

Oh, and a definite for asking Lux for screenshots now as an assurance.

	25-02-2003 22:04									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

okay, some additions. I just posted I was going to find the right thread, and what do you know, the first thread I oopen is the one... sigh... now I need to retype it again

The screenshots I would certainly demand right now, without hesitation. If Lux is going to give us their map, it shouldn't be any big deal to them if they are intending to keep their promises.

further, some more details to protect us against these known cheaters:
1. sell writing now for 150 gold. This also ratifies our contract that as long as Lux is keeping to the rules, we don't interfere. Plus, if for some reason something goes wrong, and either us or Vox is forced to take out Lux, we at least got the gold part out of it.
2. The moment we discover MM, trade it against their world map. It should be possible to trade their map if we discovered MM, at least if this is similar to SP (might need to test this). This means that they aren't able to cross us wrt the last payment, if they decide after that to try to outsmart us, they are free to feel our warriors' force.

DeepO

	25-02-2003 22:27									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

Note that by building an embassy- any civ can see where Lux's capital is, so its only a matter of (little) time...

I really like the agreement, it maintains most of the balance (clearly in our favor, but still a balance), but we do need some guarantees:

I think we should have the right, like Vox has, to post at least one unit of our own in Lux's territory. 150 gold for writing now (do they really have that much gold?). And as you all said- a screenshot of Bob.

	25-02-2003 22:48									#18
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Another thought.

Should we inquire with ND if they are willing to donate something if we eugh take care of Lux?

(assuming words gets out they are residing near us)
This could something worth to explore.

	25-02-2003 23:02									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

I'd certainly be in favor of getting paid to eliminate Lux, but I'd rather not talk about this to the other teams until we've finished our current contract with Lux and have received their WM in exchange for MM.

	25-02-2003 23:50									#20
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

No talk for as long as possible. Indeed, all it takes is one embassy, and if the tensions are that high on Bob maybe nobody will hold a special grudge against Lux, but the longer they can keep their city hidden the better.

BTW, one implication of this is that if any team establishes an embassy in Portia, they will see for the remainder of this game our secondary iron source, which could not have been spotted from the sea. Combine that with our other source placed on the coast, and this is not the ideal strategical position for us.

We should ask Lux for information of which embassies it has established (or have been build in their capital), I'm not sure but it's possible that older embassies always give a 21 tile map when the palace gets relocated. If so, the secret is already out, and people already know of our iron.. Please, no mention at all to the other teams!

DeepO