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Capt Dizle
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europe is wise, okay. that made my day...
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Main_Brain
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Economic World Center
Jul 2002
time: 06:26
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BTW I know a excellent restaurant in Washington namend 'Old Europe'
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Rufus T. Firefly
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is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:26
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Okay, here's just one of the many things that bug me about Rummy's "Old Europe" crack:
The implication is that rushing into war to dethrone madmen is the "new" way to do things, as exemplified by the US, whereas geopolitical realism and giving primary concern to national self-interest is typical of "Old Europe."
Ahem. When the Kaiser's army marched across Belgium, who was fighting -- and who merely looked on, then re-elected their president because he kept them out of the war? When the Nazis invaded Poland, who declared war -- and who chose to mind their own business? Who was the most virulently anti-Communist of all Western nations -- but refused to support the democratic uprisings in Hungary in '56 and Czechoslovakia in '68? The US spent the whole 20th century deciding which battles it would fight based on national self-interest, not out of any sense of moral obligation. That's as it should be. But let a couple of European contries do the exact same thing, and the name-calling begins.
Of course, one expects no less from men whose leadership styles seems to be modelled on the schoolyard bullies who pantsed them in their youth.
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Kramerman
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UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
time: 23:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
What's the problem here? Surely Rumsfeld has a decent point.
We're the continent that has been war-torn for centuries, have experienced some of the worst atrocities seen by man and we're now venerable and wise, having learnt that fighting is not the answer and able to behave in a dignified, civilised manner.
Meanwhile, you're the young foolish upstarts who've yet to have your character built up by experience and brusquely brushing aside all reason to pursue your desires.
No problem with that description at all! |
O...M...G...
can you seriously say this with a straight face???
I mean, i would agree with you 100% if the whole world was as 'civilized' as yourselves. But practically none of the world is! As long as there are people out there like Kim, Saddam, etc, military action for protection is a must! how can you be 'diplomatic' and negotiate s**t with a lunatic that has a gun, and you dont? you cant! your f**ked...
The fact that yall have seen the effects of diplomatic appeasement, even if on a different scale, it matters not. Yall should know the world is not a safe place, and 'civilization' needs big guns now, and we'll need them until the world is only made of stable democracies.
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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
We're the continent that has been war-torn for centuries, have experienced some of the worst atrocities seen by man and we're now venerable and wise, having learnt that fighting is not the answer and able to behave in a dignified, civilised manner.
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They're also a continent that has their own personal agendas that has nothing to do with the US's national security, nor does it take them into consideration. Looking out for numero uno is a must, and it is nice to see that even the Europeans still know how to do this.
I also agree that the ages of man cannot be carried over so easy from generation to generation. The history of the Europeans is one long war, of course, but how can we say they have learned from it? What proof is there? Maybe the centuries of this violent continent has finally made them come to, yet I will not say for certain. What is to say that the Imperialism that was so perfect by these states is still not as strong within their bloodlines as it was in days of yore? There is a reason why these countries have been war torn for centuries, and it is the same reason that they will be war torn for centuries to come; it is their nature.
quote:
Meanwhile, you're the young foolish upstarts who've yet to have your character built up by experience and brusquely brushing aside all reason to pursue your desires.
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How long does it take to build character? If one never goes to war will they never receive it as the comment seems to suggest? I am sure Europe feels this way about the US, and probably always will, since they had a few thousand year head start in blowing each other up. Now there's someone I want to listen to! (<- sarcasm).
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25-02-2003 20:24
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