25-02-2003 20:51									#1
	**Possible Spoilers** Discussing the official history as laid out in the manual Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

So here's the place to do it ...

	25-02-2003 21:31									#2
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I have to say that I thought the backstory has been improved quite a bit from the website version.

The inconsistencies around the MoO2 story remain but they have been played down quite a bit. It still seems a little odd that the victorious Orion race(s) would blow up one planet, take one look at the rest of the "scary" interdimensional rift where the Antarran home sectors has been thriving for millennia and go home, but I guess they had to find some way of explaining it away. I'd have preferred the rift area being devastated by the Orions but leaving the hegemony outside the rift to recover and plot revenge.

The only other point I'd take exception to is the human backstory. Why name a race that bioengineered them when it would be more enthralling to leave it a mysterious questionmark. Are humans self-evolved? Do they have a secret purpose unknown even to themselves? David Brin does it so well, why spoil it?

The Antarrans themselves seem too stupid to live. According to the backstory every engineered servant race they make has been a failure or escaped to become implacable enemies or both. You'd have thought they'd learn from their mistakes over many thousands of years but clearly not. I'm also a little unclear why after all this time they still haven't pinned down what, if anything, is at the galactic core.

	26-02-2003 04:16									#3
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I hope some of the hinted things in the Backstory actually do occour, the Varakesh invasion, Mizara, other 'Ancient Races' and the sort.

Though I'm guessing the Varakesh won't be added until a (Hypothetical) Expansion PAck. But damn would that be cool... And weren't they the originally planned 4th Humanoid race? The highly militaristic one?

	26-02-2003 15:44									#4
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The Varakesh were originally going to be in the game but were one of the 16 races cut due to art constraints. If we're lucky they may create those 16 for an expansion.

I couldn't find the original list so I can't comment on the other missing ones.

	26-02-2003 16:11									#5
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At least we know why the Humans don't start in Sol anymore.

	26-02-2003 16:24									#6
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Backstory was fairly well written, but I did get the impression that someone watched WAY too much B5 while playing MOO2. Was entertaining though.

-P

	26-02-2003 22:11									#7
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There is no such thing as too much B5. Especially since I missed some episodes when it was being moved weekly. Gotta love the DVD craze to solve that problem.

I thought the backstory gave too much away. As far as the divisions between the orion races that was fine. I don't see why they had to give away human and evon origins though. Make that part of the antaren X's.

	26-02-2003 22:48									#8
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quote: Originally posted by JonahFalcon At least we know why the Humans don't start in Sol anymore.

I'm sure after every hyperspace flux isolates worlds for centuries the humans end up re-establishing an empire full of planets and stars now named "earth", "home", "sol", "the sun" because humanity never ceases to underuse its imagination when given the opportunity to name things

	26-02-2003 23:04									#9
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quote: Originally posted by rhofman There is no such thing as too much B5. Especially since I missed some episodes when it was being moved weekly. Gotta love the DVD craze to solve that problem. I thought the backstory gave too much away. As far as the divisions between the orion races that was fine. I don't see why they had to give away human and evon origins though. Make that part of the antaren X's.

I agree there is never too much B5, UNLESS you are writing a manual/backstory for something totally different.

-P

	26-02-2003 23:13									#10
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Yeah, the backsotry feels heavily Babylon 5 based. But thats nto a bad thing, IMO. I think this game has the best backstory of any 4x game, by FAR.

	26-02-2003 23:35									#11
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My personal opinion of the backstory, having read it from the manual, is that it is ridiculous. Not to mention trite, convoluted, contrived, and poorly written.

Above all, why was it necessary to tie the three MOO titles together in some sort of forced linear continuity? There's no continuity between successive games I play--why should there be any between the sequels? If it were up to me, I would have hit reset, wiped the universe, and started from zero, as though MOO and MOO2 didn't exist. Reuse old races and settings, or don't; introduce new material, or don't. Just don't waste all this effort in trying to tie it all together, because for the most part, it doesn't matter.

Adding paper to manuals costs money. You could have boiled this story down to four pages without materially affecting game play. I'm sure there was room on one of the CDs to put a lavish set of HTML pages with all of this future history in it. Was it really necessary to fill thirty-five pages of the manual with this crappy story, when the documentation of the game itself is still so sorely lacking?

	28-02-2003 21:11									#12
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I disagree. The backstory is vitally important to some players of the game. There cannot be enough backstory NO MATTER how trite, convoluted, contrived and poorly written it is.

Though I agree they should have put it on HTML.

K

	28-02-2003 23:10									#13
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I haven't read the story, but like any empires from the past games, they would of spreaded throughout several worlds. soooo, so various human colonies end being isolated for a very very very very long time....and then emerge as seperate empires..and possibly with some genetic differences after spending so much time on an alien world they haven't truely evolved from.

COnsideering that the Orions seem to be humanoids, and way more human looking in comparison to most other races. SOooo, some past Orions ends being on earth, isolated and so on....probably degraded to the stone age for some reason, and then evolve base on Earth's envronment, where skin color and other visual details as changed.

i'd be very surprise if humanity still looked like modern day humans in the next several ten thousand of years.

-Mellian

	28-02-2003 23:12									#14
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backstory is quite important, and in a lot of cases, what made some games very successful, like Alpha Centauri for example, I just love the unique genre they created...

and i'm i'll like Moo3 genre as well.

-Mellian

	01-03-2003 04:36									#15
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You know some religious groups are trying to get MOOIII banned cause humans weren't..."divinely created." Pathetic


Story is cool, I just wish when I play the Evon the humans wouldn't come to me, "Beggingly wanting a NAP."

	01-03-2003 11:02									#16
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quote: Originally posted by TheMaestro You know some religious groups are trying to get MOOIII banned cause humans weren't..."divinely created."

Sigh... It seems to me said groups are out to ban every game I like to play. It started with D&D in the middle 70's and never let up. Either I'm totally evil or they need to concentrate on whats really relevant.

	03-03-2003 04:59									#17
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quote: Originally posted by TheMaestro You know some religious groups are trying to get MOOIII banned cause humans weren't..."divinely created." Pathetic Story is cool, I just wish when I play the Evon the humans wouldn't come to me, "Beggingly wanting a NAP."

very true...

I haven't found anything in the game that realy ties in with everything they wrote in the story

you know, all those parts where they just trail off with .....

I think it would of been nice for the game to have the story driven events randomly, but coherently occuring during gameplay

but anyway, the story was cool, i liked it

	06-03-2003 03:30									#18
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Does anybody know if the Mizara are part of the game somehow. Perhaps via one of the X's?

Asmodean

	06-03-2003 04:18									#19
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I don't know, but I'm guessing there not. Maybe in an expansion pack, but so far, haven't read anyone mentioning it

	07-03-2003 09:55									#20
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Including the dropped races in the next bug fix/expansion would be a great idea (and a salve for any hurt feelings...)

	08-03-2003 01:39									#21
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Pretty hard to include the Mrrshans' and the Darlock. They're kinda...I don't know...exterminated?

Asmodean

	08-03-2003 03:47									#22
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Oh no. I was referring to the 16 who were dropped from MOO3 early on. Can't say I miss the Darlocks anyway.

	14-03-2003 04:11									#23
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Maybe, I've just missed it but what is the big secret you are supposed to figure out in the game (i.e. mentioned in the backstory)? You can tell me as I don't mind having the game "spoiled" for me.

Thanks,

	14-03-2003 10:52									#24
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Not really sure what the big secret is. Probably has to do with the knowledge gained with the 5 Antaran X's. Thats no big deal to me, it like going on a scavenger hunt (find and assemble the 5 pieces of the artifact to win game. Almost cliche ).
Another "secret" is what happened to 90+% of the Antaran population. Most accepted theory is that they became transcendant and moved on. What actually happened is that one of their genetic experiments (the Ithkul) got loose and ate them (burp! ).
Then of course are the secret origins of many of the races in the game, including the humans.
Can't say there are many secrets to find (except maybe how to make it work as advertised )

	14-03-2003 23:23									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Can't say there are many secrets to find (except maybe how to make it work as advertised )

That's too bad. The backstory was quite interesting and it made me want to find out what happened. Maybe the writer should release a book on the story. I'm not much of a fiction reader but I'd pick this one up.

As far as making it work. I've played it a grand total of 1hour. After that I became frustrated. Since I wanted a Civish fix I started a game of Civ III and have been playing since. It's too bad because the game seemed to have a lot of promise.
Hopefully, Galactic Civ is great!

	14-03-2003 23:30									#26
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Actually, according to the manual, it was a different strain of Harvester that killed off the Antarans, not the Ithkul.

As for the big secret (just got my first 5-x win last night):

spoiler(highlight to read): The Anteran X's were 5 secret (Original Orion or Original Anteran, not sure which) techs that would allow galactic dominance. In order to keep the New Orions from getting them, they were split up and given to 5 of the younger races. Oddly enough, the 5 races that confronted the New Orions and got crushed. Now there's a coincidence for you. Maybe the elder races liked cheese?

	15-03-2003 02:25									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Eric S Actually, according to the manual, it was a different strain of Harvester that killed off the Antarans, not the Ithkul. As for the big secret (just got my first 5-x win last night):

Interesting and thanks. By the way, after you get these do you dominate the galaxy as fortold?

	15-03-2003 04:50									#28
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If you enabled the 5-X victory, it counts as a win, so I think the answer is yes. Several of the X's are very useful technologies. I wouldn't say that combined they give you an unbeatable edge, though. A very sound advantage, however.

	15-03-2003 16:00									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Eric S Actually, according to the manual, it was a different strain of Harvester that killed off the Antarans, not the Ithkul. As for the big secret (just got my first 5-x win last night):

I'm sorry, you're correct. Harvester Gamma (little worms) ate the Antarans. Harvester Zeta became the Ithkul. We can assume Alpha, Beta, etc. are failed experiments (whether they are still around is yet unknown).

I think it was the original Antarans who created the X's.

	17-03-2003 12:21									#30
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I'd belive that. As I said in another thread, I got my first 5-x win when someone was watching a movie, so I had the sound way down and didn't hear the first 15-20 seconds of the movie. The speaker didn't look like an Antaran, so I I wasn't sure. I'm not too far away from another 5-x win, so I'll crank the volume beforehand to check it out.