26-02-2003 00:22									#1
	Ethical Dilema Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

So I've been offered the opportunity to send a proposal in to work in a website. I can easily do the work, and it pays about $1000US. Bascially a slam dunk kinda job if I can get it.

The thing is, do I want to? It's a site for a practitioner of "healing touch." Healing touch is bunk, New Agey mumbo jumbo that has flunked all the double-blind tests (AFAIK). Some people belive this crap and others are probably knowingly fraudulent. Do I want to help this person committ a fraud, even if it's a legal one? I feel uncomfortable about this.

Possible rationalizations:
1. I need the money.
2. If I don't do it, someone else will.
3. I'd do work for a church or commonly accepted religion even though I know religion is bunk. This is an accepted practice in Asia. Is this really that different?
4. Other people have helped me out. Don't I owe it to them to do what I can to get myself back on my feet?

	26-02-2003 00:30									#2
	Put an end to popups!

I can understand the dilemma, on one hand you are knowingly fraudulent, and on the other hand fools and their money are easily parted. Remember, come the revolution, it will all be redistributed anyway I'd respect you if you didn't do it, I'd understand if you did...

	26-02-2003 00:35									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Possible rationalizations: 1. I need the money.

If you need it, you need it, but what will you stop at to get it?

quote: 2. If I don't do it, someone else will.

but what kind of person?

quote: 3. I'd do work for a church or commonly accepted religion even though I know religion is bunk. This is an accepted practice in Asia. Is this really that different?

True. Seems to be exactly the same to me.

quote: 4. Other people have helped me out. Don't I owe it to them to do what I can to get myself back on my feet?

You don't owe anything to anyone. If they helped you they did it out of the goodness of their heart, they didn't violate any ethical boundaries to do so. Thus, you shouldn't feel required to do so because of them.

My personal thoughts on the matter:

Working on website doesn't really help them commit the fraud. You are not responsible for what they do, and you are not accountable for what they may claim on the web page. Your job, if you chose to except it, is to write a web page for a client, nothing else. I could understand if the web site advocated violence or harm, yet if they don't have a web page would their buisness really hurt a whole lot? I would do it, not because of a moral position, but because it is my job to. I would even do a web page for the KKK, even if my philosophy got in the way, because it is my job, and chosen profession.

I do, however, feel that if my job asked me to directly impose harm on another I could not. Yet, if I was in such a field I would think about a career change.

	26-02-2003 00:35									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

As-a-matter-of-pragmatism-i-say-do-it.-at-leat-it-is-ot-capitalism.com.

	26-02-2003 00:49									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

In the words of Dan Fielding, "I don't have principles. I can't afford them."

	26-02-2003 00:49									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Chegitz,

Take the money and run. If you'll only do websites for dudes whose policies and products you support, you'll end up a poor man. Doctors don't consider the moral code of the patients they treat, or they would be downright unprofessional.

	26-02-2003 00:53									#7
	Re: Ethical Dilema Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'd say, go for it. It's not you, who tells people that kind of junk. Especially as you'd do it for any "commonly accepted" religion, then do it, I can't sense any difference. Hey, the catholic church will tell you that holy people can really do wonders, including healing hands
You need the money. Get in the position so you can choose NOT to work for such guys if you feel like it, but at first you have to get out of the financial mud. Absolutely acting according to ones ethic requires being financially secure, although some of us would see being financially secure to be immoral. Uh, I better stop it.
Do it (or someone else will)!

Come on, those people aren't really tricked. They need to believe in stuff like that, they're demanding such gurus. I hope, it's not like that person adivises people absolutely not to go to the doctor, but rather ONLY to him. In that case, don't do it, of course.

	26-02-2003 00:57									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If the product is legal, you should procede. It is up to the consumer to do their research before buying the product.

	26-02-2003 01:17									#9
	Support Apolyton

I say stick to your principles. That's generally a good thing to do regardless of the situation.

	26-02-2003 01:22									#10
	Remove this text

yes

stivk with your princimples

but I am not sure why oyurprinciples are n a bind on this

it is just marketing, and while it is marketing a questionalbe product, so are most produccts

Jon Miller

	26-02-2003 01:23									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Just dont add any subliminal messages

	26-02-2003 01:24									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I guess if it would depend on the what the site said

like if it said millions swear by it, I would have no problem

fi I was suppose to put that the surgeon general reccomends it, than I woul dhave a problem

Jon Miller

	26-02-2003 01:28									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You need money. Ideals aren't worth starving over.

	26-02-2003 01:31									#14
	Support Apolyton

Take the money.

	26-02-2003 01:40									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You should do the work, and do the best job you can.

At the very least you can put the site on your resume as an example of your willingness to design sites for all people and practices, even those you don't necessarily "believe" in.

I don't believe in ESP or all that pseudo-crap either, but if some goof-assed Pyramidologist was willing to pay me $1,000 to throw a website together explaining his theory that the Pyramids were built by greys, well, I'd do it.

	26-02-2003 01:44									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

but you can see the point that Che is arguing from

that is a problem for everyone in marketing

Jon Miller

	26-02-2003 01:47									#17
	Remove this text

The difference between this and ESP is this purports to be medically helpful. It's not harmful, except in that it lightens your wallet for no real gain, I'm also concerned about participating in something that might cause someone to forego real treatment.

	26-02-2003 01:48									#18
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Oh, I can jon. No problem.

Che: how much of an issue is this for you? Would it be more or less of an issue than if, say, the John Birch Society (or Pat Buchanan for those of you not in the know re: the JBS) asked you to be their webmaster for 6 figures a year?

	26-02-2003 01:50									#19
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The difference between this and ESP is this purports to be medically helpful. It's not harmful, except in that it lightens your wallet for no real gain, I'm also concerned about participating in something that might cause someone to forego real treatment.

Does he advise people NOT to go to the doctor also?

	26-02-2003 01:57									#20
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by JohnT Che: how much of an issue is this for you? Would it be more or less of an issue than if, say, the John Birch Society (or Pat Buchanan for those of you not in the know re: the JBS) asked you to be their webmaster for 6 figures a year?

I would not work for Buchanan or the Birchers, regardless of how much trouble I was in, not even for six figures. I would probably cry in that situation, however. I'm leaning towards sending in a proposal, I just feel a little, wrong.

Wernazuma III, I don't know.

	26-02-2003 02:00									#21
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I thought communists don't like to dirty their hands with money.

	26-02-2003 02:02									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Wer asks a good question, one that you should try to find the answer to before you accept. If they advise people not to go to the doctor, that is (imho) beyond the pale and you shouldn't do it.

Perhaps my JBS analogy was a bit too extreme given your views, but the idea is the same.

	26-02-2003 02:26									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Its legal, so go for it.
To feel better, you can use part of those money (and some spare time) to make a campaign against their point of view.

	26-02-2003 02:27									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Mihai Its legal, so go for it. To feel better, you can use part of those money (and some spare time) to make a campaign against their point of view.

That's not ethical! Once you're a slave to a demon, you still can't betray it and come out clean.

	26-02-2003 03:06									#25
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

So when did you become a medical expert? People find medical relief from a number of alternatives to western medicine. So long as you dont knowingly participate in a lie then as far as I'm concerned your conscience should be clear.

	26-02-2003 05:25									#26
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: 3. I'd do work for a church or commonly accepted religion even though I know religion is bunk. This is an accepted practice in Asia. Is this really that different?

If you can work for a church, as a communist, you can work for a healer. It's not those principles you are defending.

If you feel that this website is positively harmful, in the sense that people will be worse off, then I say don't help them. You should find out if they encourage people to avoid medical doctors before making your decision.

Wernazuma:

It's not just the Catholics who believe that the Holy Spirit can provide the gift of healing through touch, some Protestants do as well, including my own church.

	26-02-2003 05:33									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 If the product is legal, you should procede. It is up to the consumer to do their research before buying the product.

I mean, do you think that people who wouldn't have bought into it will buy into because of you? It likely would make no difference.

	26-02-2003 05:40									#28
	Tired of ads?

You're not making marketing claims, you're not being a party to fraud.

If nothing else, take the money, then if there are clearly bogus medical claims, report your client to the appropriate medical licensing board. Then you can have it both ways.

Some new-agey mumbo jumbo stuff works, some doesn't, and sometimes the stuff that doesn't work has a placebo effect. You're not responsible for what it claimed, or if it's accurate, you're responsible for making it readable and accessible on the website.

If you were called on to write misleading content, that would be a clear ethical issue, but you're not, from what I can tell - you're just organizing whatever content there is and making it available on the site.

Take the money.

	26-02-2003 09:48									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Since you will do the same thing for organised religion, and this outfit is legal, I don't see why not.

Unless it tells people not to go see doctors and similar sort of funny stuff, there isn't really a big ethical issue here.

	26-02-2003 09:57									#30
	Support Apolyton

Take the money, if only out of respect for those who helped you when you were down. They couldn't be more pleased than seeing their help eventually paid.