26-02-2003 08:37									#1
	Would Communism have worked better in Britain? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Would Britain had been the better breeding ground for the Commies of pre-1970? All things needed were second nature to the Poms.

Brits were known to pull together then and strived for a common good. They used to queue for AGES (still seen in various tourist parks today) and didn't care if there were abrupt shortages of goods (i.e. looking for bread on a Saturday afternoon). Thatcher proved Britain didn't mind a dictatorship, and draw pleasure from the rich falling into the lower classes.

Understand I'm not saying Britain would have been a happier, merrier place under Communism, but I think the British would have done it properly, and without cheating. It would have spared Britain Robert Maxwell for a start.

Any thoughts?

	26-02-2003 08:39									#2
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if you brits became dirty pinky commie rats! our good old US of A would invade and liberate you!!

	26-02-2003 08:43									#3
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It would probably end as well as it did in Paris.

	27-02-2003 03:53									#4
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The British electorate returned four Communist m.p.s to Parliament in all, although none after 1950, amongst whom was Shapurji Saklatvala:

http://www.marxlibrary.net/reviews/...aklatvala_1.htm

	27-02-2003 04:07									#5
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"Communism" (more properly "socialism under a police state") would have worked about as badly in Britain than in Russia IMHO. For a Socialist poilce state to work properly, you need an overmotivation from the population for the system to work better. Simple apathy isn't this needed motivation.

	27-02-2003 04:34									#6
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Exactly. I'd say that what Thatcher actually demonstrates is that we Brits don't care who makes up our government, so you simply wouldn't be able to whip us up into enough a frenzy for a revolution to take place.

	27-02-2003 04:37									#7
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"but I think the British would have done it properly"

How can you do it properly ?
It's a failed theory. Period.

	27-02-2003 04:57									#8
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I think the Japanese would make particularly good communists. That is if they had the proper motivation.

	27-02-2003 05:04									#9
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Britain behaved rather like a communist state during the Second World War.

	27-02-2003 05:06									#10
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You mean as bombs were falling on London?

	27-02-2003 05:10									#11
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Communism would have been particularly ugly in Britain considering how entrenched the noble class is.

	27-02-2003 05:11									#12
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No one is paying attention to your attempts to turn this into a communism vs. capitalism thread. Try harder SlowwHand.

	27-02-2003 05:11									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Paul Hanson Exactly. I'd say that what Thatcher actually demonstrates is that we Brits don't care who makes up our government, so you simply wouldn't be able to whip us up into enough a frenzy for a revolution to take place.

To have a revolution is quintessentially unEnglish.

	27-02-2003 05:13									#14
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No need for me to try and do that Duncan.
Communist success speaks for itself.

	27-02-2003 05:15									#15
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quote: You mean as bombs were falling on London?

Sure.

quote: To have a revolution is quintissentially unEnglish.

I expect I'm walking into a trap here, but what about Cromwell? Or the Gunpowder Plot?

	27-02-2003 05:24									#16
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That was ages ago.

	27-02-2003 05:24									#17
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand No need for me to try and do that Duncan. Communist success speaks for itself.

Oh. I see. There is no logic to your opnion. You only hold that opinion, because of the results of a couple of events. I'm afraid that won't do.

	27-02-2003 05:39									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Sure. I expect I'm walking into a trap here, but what about Cromwell? Or the Gunpowder Plot?

The Gunpowder Plot was not a revolution- just an assassination attempt. The Civil Wars and the Interregnum of the English Commonwealth have slightly more claim to be a 'revolution' but members of the aristocracy fought on both sides, and Scottish Calvinists fought English Puritans for an Anglican monarch. More of a shuffling around of special interest groups- even the Glorious Revolution resulted in the debarring of one set of monarchs rather than doing away with monarchy as a whole.
The truly revolutionary principles expounded at the Putney Debates and in the 'Agreement of the People'
were never acted upon- entrenched interests of the wealthy gentry (Cromwell's son-in-law prominent amongst them) saw to that.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/foun...s/v1ch15s1.html

"In 1646 John Lilburne, John Wildman, Richard Overton and William Walwyn formed a new political party called the Levellers. Their political programme included: voting rights for all adult males, annual elections, complete religious freedom, an end to the censorship of books and newspapers, the abolition of the monarchy and the House of Lords, trial by jury, an end to taxation of people earning less than £30 a year and a maximum interest rate of 6%. The Levellers started publishing their own newspaper, The Moderate. They also organised meetings where they persuaded people to sign a Petition supporting their policies.

In 1646 Leveller supporters were elected from each regiment of the army to participate in the Putney Debates that began at the Church of St. Mary on 28th October, 1647. The debate was based on 'An Agreement of the People', a constitutional proposal drafted by the Levellers. Senior officers in the New Model Army such as Henry Ireton argued that the vote should be based on the ownership of property.

Others such as Thomas Rainsborough, a member of the House of Commons supported the demands of the Levellers. In the debate he argued: "that every man that is to live under a government ought first by his own consent be put himself under that government."

A compromise was eventually agreed that the vote would be granted to all men except alms-takers and servants and the Putney Debates came to an end on 8th November, 1647. The agreement was never put before the House of Commons. Leaders of the Leveller movement, including John Lilburne and John Wildman, were arrested and their pamphlets were burnt in public. Oliver Cromwell is reported to have said: "What is the purport of the levelling principle but to make the tenant as liberal a fortune as the landlord. I was by birth a gentleman. You must cut these people in pieces or they will cut you in pieces."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.u...tneydebates.htm

	27-02-2003 05:49									#19
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Ok, what is a revolution then?

	27-02-2003 19:54									#20
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Communism would have been particularly ugly in Britain considering how entrenched the noble class is.

All rise for the right honourable Chairperson Elizabeth II of the British Communist Party.

Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers
God Save the Chairperson.
Arise ye prisoners of want
God Save the Chairperson.
For reason in revolt now thunders
God Save the Chairperson.
And at last ends the age of cant.
God Save the Chairperson.

Away with all your superstitions
God Save the Chairperson.
Servile masses arise, arise
God Save the Chairperson.
We'll change forthwith the old tradition
God Save the Chairperson.
And spurn the dust to win the prize.
God Save the Chairperson.

	27-02-2003 19:58									#21
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ENGSOC will rise again!