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PLATO
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Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:26
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quote:
Also, you have to compare GNP per capita with the actual prices of consumer goods at the time and in that country. In a developing country you have low wages, but also low prices, so, yes, you need a price index as well to arrive at meaningful conclusions. So, yes, you 'got' me on that I should have explicitly said so. I thought that was understood. |
It was understood. These levels are adjusted to be comparitive.
This would indicate a 300 to 500 % drop from 1980 to 1986 in GNP if Iraq was on par with Europe. Is this really what you are trying to state?
If the argument is: Was Iraq better off before Saddam took power in 1979? Then the answer is "yes, unquestionably." If the argument is: Was Iraqi standard of living upto European levels in 1980? The answer is far more than a resounding "NO"
Read data! You are looking for holes in data, not for the meaning of data. At some point you must draw a conclusion based on facts. I have provided them. You have only made nebulous statements about forgetting where links are. With all due respect, put up or shut up.
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Comrade Tribune
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Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
I was interested by your claim of Iraq being on par with European countries. By the time I begin this post, I don't know how true or false it is.
So, according to http://www.worldbank.org/data/count...aag/irq_aag.pdf and http://www.library.uu.nl/wesp/populstat/Asia/iraqc.htm
Iraq had in 1981 :
- a GDP of 32.6 billion $
- a population of 13,500,000.
Calculated GDP per capita : 2,414.81 $
In comparison, United Kingdom had in 1981 :
- a GDP of 508.9 billion $
- a population of 56,329,000
Calculated GDP per capita : 9,034.42 $
I didn't find PPP translations of GDP for this juncture (which take the price differences into account). Care to find them to give some weigh to your assertions ? |
Your numbers sound plausible. If Iraq had about 3 times lower prices and invested a little bit more into consumer goods, then it would have had the living standard of Britain. But it probably didnīt, I was thinking rather of Greece or Portugal; I think it can easily be seen that Iraq played in about the same league.
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Comrade Tribune
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Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Fine, I had just calculated Portugal's GDP was about 2,893 $ per capita in 1981 according to the same sources
Greece 4,620 $
Syria had 1,690 $
Switzerland 15,460 $
But I wouldn't tell 1981's Portugal or Greece "*had* a high living standard". I may be wrong though. A Greek could testify here. |
I think we have reached agreement here. Iraq didnīt have the living standard of Switzerland -no one has!  -, but for a developing country, being comparable even to Portugal is quite good.
Saddam did make some wrong decisions, but his being depicted as *all* bad is just another US disinfo (and they didnīt depict him like that in the early 80s  ).
Edit: And now we have even DinoDoc downplaying Saddamīs aggression against Iran. Iīd say public opinion is visibly shifting toward Saddam, and this is just Apolyton.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:26
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I might say, 'blondes are hot'. That doesn't mean that I think all blondes are hot. It is a generalization.
So, I not only don't like France I don't like the French. That doesn't mean that there aren't some that I would like, in fact I'm sure there are. I had spent a few days drinking beer with a French Canadian in the Philippines. Nice guy, we got along well. We both married Filipinas so we have something in common.
I have been subject to prejudice against Americans in both France and Germany. In Germany a friend and I were refused service in a bar because we were American soldiers. In France, as a child, my family were being talked about in a nasty way by a couple of French in a hotel. My father turned around and told them to "shut up, you French ****s"...but did it in fluent French.
The guy was a mean SOB and he had big brass balls.
The French don't like Americans, the French just aren't honest enough to admit it. I have no such qualms.
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Lung
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of my princess Anastasia!
Mar 1999
time: 15:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Read his post again; "prejudice" is when you pre-judge someone when you know nothing about them -- this has nothing to do with what Lancer posted. American's increasing ire with the French is the direct result of French diplomatic stances that most of us find unfathomable, except as possibly a need to be annoying. |
He's still pre-judging someone because of their nationality. He has extended his generalisation to include French as individuals. That makes it just as bad as being racist.
If you hate a black man because he's gay, does that mean it's not as bad as hating him because he's black??  There's nothing inherently worse than hating someone because of their colour than because of their sexuality/choice of car/liking of donuts/aversion to alcohol, etc. That would only to serve to make it okay to hate someone you've never met for any excuse you can think of.
I know someone who was refused service in a pub because of the football jumper he wore. Apparently, because he wasn't discriminated against because of his race/gender/sexuality/creed, it was okay
Anyone who's been excluded from a sporting team because they were different in any way can testify to the fact that being discriminated against for any reason is wrong.
Any way you look at it, you're discriminating for reasons other than one's personal attributes. According to your own example, if a French person meets you, they have to prove themselves worthy of avoiding your scorn as opposed to some american who is automatically accepted by you.
Any way you look at it, it's unjustifiable. How can you claim that you're going to war for altruistic purposes when you despise one of the antagonists? Why should anyone trust your motives? The whole point of this is that you end up going to war because you hate the French who are supporting Iraq. French people earn your dislike while Iraqis earn your wrath! Where is the fairness in that? If you're not in it solely to depose Saddam, then you have no moral grounds whatsoever. Your reasons just do not survive scrutiny 
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27-02-2003 10:06
What is 'commonly accepted' about that? 
you should know that I call every bluff.) 
In any case, prejudice is just as bad as racism because hating someone on the basis of their race is not inherently worse than prejudice for any other reason. Intolerance of people based on other than their individual attributes and consequent discrimination is simply wrong. You've blatantly stated your hate of people based purely on their nationality.
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