26-02-2003 18:01									#1
	Gore Vidal on the Vietnam war - oh how it rings true Support Apolyton

quote: Gore Vidal Ten years ago I thought of the Vietnam caper as our empire's Syracusan adventure, an analogy which now seems melodramatic, for during all this time there has not been a Sparta (pace Kissinger? Schlesinger Fordinger) capable of bringing us down. Only we could have done that; and we came close. Fortunately, the very thoroughness of our defeat ought to put an end forever to our loony military pretensions. Americans have always been lousy soldiers. In the face of the enemy, Kilroy throws away his gun and splits; should an officer object, Kilroy frags him. To me our enduring cowardice is a sign of good judgment. We win the occasional war and deter would-be Spartas through our superior production of lethal toys. This true state of affairs makes all the more meaningless the rhetoric of those who have no actual connection with American life, like the current administration which has now taken to warning us that the last virginal orifice of the all-American, all-macho imperium is in serious danger of penetration by nuclear-tipped cylindrical hardware unless we cease our pitiful, helpless "isolationism." But even the ventriloquists who speak through the dummy in the Oval office know that we are none of us isolationist, nor can we ever be, thanks to the interdependency of the world's economies. "Isolationist" is simply this year's code word for those who oppose the use of military force against other nations, for those who refuse to bear any burden, make any sacrifice, etc. After 1976, I predict (being an optimist) that the word will have gone forth to friend and foe alike that the era of American bullshit is finished and that we will now try to create that society the world has been waiting two hundred years to see: an American civilization.

This thread will probably sink like a stone.........

	26-02-2003 18:04									#2
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The "Syracusan adventure" is a disasterous military campaign which ended the golden age of Athens and destroyed its power during the Peloponnesian war against Sparta in the fifth century BC.

Btw, For any of you students of history or military buffs out there, Thucydides' account is a great read - one of the greatest accounts of a military campaign ever written.

http://classics.mit.edu/Thucydides/...ar.6.sixth.html

Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 26-02-2003 at 18:10

	26-02-2003 18:34									#3
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great article.

	26-02-2003 18:44									#4
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When did he write this?

	26-02-2003 21:19									#5
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"Americans have always been lousy soldiers. In the face of the enemy, Kilroy throws away his gun and splits; should an officer object, Kilroy frags him."
****ing bastard.

	26-02-2003 21:25									#6
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"Americans have always been lousy soldiers. In the face of the enemy, Kilroy throws away his gun and splits; should an officer object, Kilroy frags him."

Well, you can't avoid the occasional chickenchoker - I'm sure even the ANZACs had at least one or two. But 99.999% of time, that remark is nothing but insulting bullshit.

	26-02-2003 21:27									#7
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Internet troll quotes a literary troll. How trollcestuous.

	26-02-2003 21:27									#8
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Not only that, but it is insulting to my grandfather. ****ing bastard to insult him, that Gore Vidal...

	26-02-2003 21:29									#9
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Doesn't he make hair spray?

	27-02-2003 15:35									#10
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat "Americans have always been lousy soldiers. In the face of the enemy, Kilroy throws away his gun and splits; should an officer object, Kilroy frags him." Well, you can't avoid the occasional chickenchoker - I'm sure even the ANZACs had at least one or two. But 99.999% of time, that remark is nothing but insulting bullshit.

Yes, he was a tad over the top there - but that was 1976 when the issue was topical and there was kind of a crisis in American confidence after Vietnam.

	27-02-2003 17:55									#11
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You can't blame Gore Vidal... he is old and senile; and he sits at his home in Italy watching 16 hours of TV a day and thinks he knows how the world works.

	27-02-2003 18:31									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Sava You can't blame Gore Vidal... he is old and senile; and he sits at his home in Italy watching 16 hours of TV a day and thinks he knows how the world works.

Good post. I could add a hundred items to your litany, but yours is so cogent that I won't bother.

	27-02-2003 19:16									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Sava You can't blame Gore Vidal... he is old and senile; and he sits at his home in Italy watching 16 hours of TV a day and thinks he knows how the world works.

As opposed to everyone here who spend 16 hours a day in front of their PC and think they know how the world works.

	27-02-2003 19:42									#14
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Screw Gore Vidal. His opinion on anything matters a lot.

	27-02-2003 19:48									#15
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"Americans have always been lousy soldiers. In the face of the enemy, Kilroy throws away his gun and splits; should an officer object, Kilroy frags him."

Isn't Vidal a WWII vet? What does this say about him?

	27-02-2003 22:34									#16
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet As opposed to everyone here who spend 16 hours a day in front of their PC and think they know how the world works.

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Isn't Vidal a WWII vet? What does this say about him?

That he fragged an officer, perhaps...

	28-02-2003 06:23									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Alexnm That he fragged an officer, perhaps...