27-02-2003 03:09									#1
	First Impressions? Tired of ads?

I've been reading the manual and plinking around for about three hours now. The reviewers weren't kidding. Learning "cliff" indeed!

The look of the game isn't as bad as I'd feared from the reviews, though the fonts look a little smudged at my default resolution, and the interface is a little bit bland.

I like the game setup options, and the galaxy choices, and the starlanes. Seems you can have a wide variety of game styles, depending on your tastes.

Two grumps, though.

-Is it just me, or is the finance angle totally out of control? If I wanted all of this gobbledegook about imperial finances, I'd be buying economic simulators, or talking to my CPA friend with the green visor. I don't give a rat's behind about input, outflow, imperial vs. local taxes, planetary grants, and whether the senate coffee fund is in the black.

Give me the good ol' finances. You had a tax rate, income, and expenses. You were making money or losing it. If you had money, you spent it. End of story.

-It seems to me that in Moo2, I could figure out 85% of everything I ever needed to know about my whole empire on the Colonies screen. And I could figure out 95% of what I needed to know about expansion options on the planet screen.

Now it seems like all of that same information is scattered randomly over a shotgun blast of screens and tables. When I'm looking for relevant information, I wonder if this is how the weapons inspectors in Iraq feel. Word to the wise. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

	27-02-2003 08:59									#2
	Tired of ads?

I think the reason why it is split up into this more complicated system is to simulate that 5th x. I think the developers wanted us to have a close experience as possible in managing an "empire". Personally I like to to tweak things here and there, but I can understand where you are coming from as well.
-Demos

	27-02-2003 09:22									#3
	first game Increase the size of your Attachments

in my first game i am learning through making mistakes. For example i will go through 2-3 turns before i figure out how to change queue lines. theres a lot to go through... may take months for me to find a good strategy for the game.

It will be very fun

	27-02-2003 10:05									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Again, I learned to navigate via the Strat Guide.

Little hint - there are only a few REAL sliders you need to learn:

a) the economic sliders (the four sliders that control planetary grants, research, military, unrest)

b) The build list

c) The planetary infrastructer (where you order DEAs)

That's all, really. Oh, and the shipyard and the task force creation

	27-02-2003 10:33									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

This is a sad day. I have just been hitting "Next Turn" for about an hour (I'm now near turn 100 and some race has declared war on and off three times with no noticable effect) and the game acts like I'm not even there.

It just goes on and on with its reports and information and blah blah blah...

I don't care about graphics, or sound. I only care about gameplay.

Sigh...I'll try some more of course BUT if you are new to this genre don't get ityet. I have a bad feeling it'll end up in the bargin bin.

I think this is the saddest post I've had to write ever. Maybe it'll get better? Hope springs eternal...

	27-02-2003 10:37									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You'll lose if you keep clicking End Turn over and over. You have to LEARN HOW TO PLAY. Have you tried BUILDING anything?!?!?! Ships? Troops? Task Forces? DEAs?

By the way, there are plenty of times in Civ that all you do is press Turn over and over.

	27-02-2003 10:46									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You have been clicking end turn? thats all? lol

My god man, the AI doesnt move your fleets for you aside from colony ships. Just in that one aspect alone, scoring a win by clicking nothing but end turn would be a very lucky occasion perhaps only possible via the Orion Senate and if you had automated settling on However, it would still be highly unlikely and im not sure if even possible.

Many people just see all the numbers and figures and get overwhelmed, they click end turn, not know what to do, and because the AI handles low-level functions they think they are actually playing the game. Not at all. And if you are playing a Human opponent, I 100% guarantee you you will surely lose if you do only that, and im sure you will lose the very great majority of your games vs the AI in that fashion as well.

end turn... lol.

	27-02-2003 10:50									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yeah I know but it's like nothing happens. Crap I don't even know what to say...

Sighhh...oh crap...

What can I say but it just doesn't have that cool and fun factor? Goddamn that Tom Chick!

	27-02-2003 10:54									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

lol

	27-02-2003 10:55									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Yeah I know but it's like nothing happens. Crap I don't even know what to say...

Nothing happens?

Little hint: ALWAYS CHECK YOUR SITREP EVERY TURN.

Have you ever looked at your SITREP? (Situation report, top of the screen tab.)

	27-02-2003 11:02									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

There is a major gripe, my unrest is CRAZY. I tried putting all funding into it, using the oppressometer, everything. Yet every turn five reports of "another hospital was blown up," "your people are being terrorized."

But other than that I love it. Still getting the hang of it though, only have had it one day. If I can figure out the unrest and financial aspects...I'll be fine. IMHO the numbers jump too much though, one turn you're making 500 AU, the next you're losing 3.7K

	27-02-2003 11:06									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Put the Oppressometer on max, increase unrest funding, and also, BUILD SPIES. Homeland spies help capture enemy spies.

Plus, go to each planet INDIVIDUALLY that you see having unrest on your SitRep and check in the demographics the unrest level. If it's too high, lower the planet's taxes to 12%. You may lose money on that planet, it won't affet your system income that much.

Again, the INDIVIDUAL PLANET'S taxes, not the system taxes.

It's tough to learn - I spent 3 days dealing with rampant unrest - but you'll learn to deal with unrest soon enough.

Oh, you can also devote a chunk of research to Social Sciences, which have unrest lowering techs.

Plus, make sure your leaders don't have something like a 5% unrest penalty.

Sometimes, though, you'll have to grin and bear it -- you can't stop EVERY spy from making it through. I hate it when you find out it's the New Orions themselves spamming your empire.

	27-02-2003 11:09									#13
	Got spare money?

Unrest is my only major problem, other than that its good. But for my first day I love it, just gotta get the hang of it some more.

The finances do seem to be disorganized somewhat...I kinda got the hang of 'em, sort of.

	27-02-2003 11:10									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The finances are very very organized. When you learn the finance sliders and budget, you're home free. That, and proper task force management, are the keys to winning.

	27-02-2003 11:25									#15
	Re: First Impressions? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by mrbilll If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Yeah but if the game wasn't different, there would be even more people complaining how the game is MOO 2.5. A lot of people (including me) didn't like CIV III mainly because it didn't add much...

KoalaBear33

	27-02-2003 11:31									#16
	The one thing I miss from MOO2 Increase the size of your Attachments

The thing I miss most is the ability to bring up a nice summary of all of my colonies and how they're doing. The Colonies screen in Moo2 was invaluable for gauging your empire's overall status, and I miss that in Moo3.

I realize you can use the Planets tab to sort out just planets owned by you and then arrow through them, but it's just that much more of a pain. Next time you want a new colony, it's time to reset all those checkboxes.

All in all, they probably did it this way on purpose, to make you watch stuff at a planet-by-planet level... but I still miss it.

	27-02-2003 11:35									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Uh, yes, the Planets tab is very very handy.

Try clicking "Unowned Planets" and use the friggin' sorts - both primary and secondary. (ie. primary: haibility zone, secondary: size -- or gravity -- or fertility -- or mineral richenss -- or...)

	27-02-2003 11:38									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Only thing i haven't quite gotten a clue on is how to create point defense screening ships.

Any ideas?

	27-02-2003 11:44									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

Try Auto Building them at the Shipyard. Just select Point Defense, then autobuild, and you can tweak from here.

System ships are best for point defense, by the way, and you don't have to create a task force for system ships.

	27-02-2003 12:24									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Try clicking "Unowned Planets" and use the friggin' sorts - both primary and secondary. (ie. primary: haibility zone, secondary: size -- or gravity -- or fertility -- or mineral richenss -- or...)

Ohhhhh... so to quote myself, I "can use the Planets tab" to get a list of my colonies, but then to find suitable new colony sites, I have "to reset all those checkboxes" -- like the 'Unowned Planets' box and the 'Uncontrolled' box. Gee, that's nothing like what you said just now.

I'm not saying the info's not there, I'm not saying I really mind that much having to change the checkboxes and sorts when I switch tasks, I'm not even saying this needs to be changed!... I'm just waxing nostalgic about being able get all of this kind of info with just one click.

	27-02-2003 13:32									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

No, just uncheck "Owned Planets" and check "Unowned planets" Is that so haaaaaaaard?

	27-02-2003 16:51									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

i'd watch what you say about moo3 guys, (those of you who are now playing it).

If you criticize it, or if you say you are disappointed with certain aspects, you are likely to be labelled as stupid, dumb etc... just as the reviewers who didn't like it were.

or get some sarcastic response belittling you such as "didn't you see that button stupid?" , or "all you did was click end turn? i'm just gonna laugh at you!"

something along those lines.

	27-02-2003 17:06									#23
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by vee4473 If you criticize it, or if you say you are disappointed with certain aspects, you are likely to be labelled as stupid, dumb etc... just as the reviewers who didn't like it were.

That happened with EU too. Some people just don't like EU....

That said, reading the problems people are having, I'm still looking forward to getting MOO3 when the price comes down a notch.

	27-02-2003 17:15									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

i like hearing all kinds of opinions on the game too. I was just commenting on the way some in this thread were replying to some who had questions or gripes.

They are either getting laughed at or being told, in a very condescending way, that here's the button or checkbox you should use.

i'm waiting for the out and out insults to start flying at those who may be disappointed with the game.

	27-02-2003 19:40									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

First Impressions:

The manual: is pretty good. For a change, I am hoping I won't NEED the strategy guide to figure out the game. Also, the 'chapters' on history spready throughout the manual were a nice touch.

The Graphics: better than expected. The informatino screens would be way to distracting with more detailed grapics, I think. Combat graphics are not exactly cutting edge, but are not nearly as disappointing as some of the rumors had. Fun to watch.

The interface: Pop-up (pop-out, whatever) meus everywhere. I think I am growing to like these, though, after being a little lost. I am not sure about the organization yet (still a lot of learning to do), but the format is nice.

A few negatives: I have lots to learn, but so far....
The finances are odd and hard to follow. I know I am not suppose to micromanage, but it would be nice to be able to figure out exactly where the money comes from and where it goes to while I am a small empire....more playing time will probably help here.

Also, the tech advances are so numerous that you switch off the notify option for new techs. It might be nice if there was a difference between techs that did nothing for you and techs that were significant, so that you could know when it was time to upgrade.

Still getting a feel for the gameplay, strategy, AI ability, etc....however, big kudos for developing SOMETHING DIFFERENT. It is NOT just MOOII with new tech and new graphics. This may take me a while to learn/master, but that is a plus too....and multiplayer really has some potential. The fact that you don't need to check every planet every turn means that multiplay games might finish in a resonable amount of time.....

	27-02-2003 19:51									#26
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by vee4473 i'm waiting for the out and out insults to start flying at those who may be disappointed with the game.

You probably won't have to wait long; seems to happen with any game that's released. I can never understand why someone who likes a game cannot accept that others may... *gasp* ... dislike it. And vice-versa. And then they get all defensive and insulting about it, as if that's going to validate their position.

Anyway, thanks to all who are posting first impressions. It's making the wait until Sunday that much easier.

	27-02-2003 20:03									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Life's too short to play galactic spreadsheet simulators. The acolytes of Moo3 insist that you've just gotta dedicate 20-30 hours of your life to learning to love it. I'd rather just skip ahead to the cyanide cool aid.

Where to start? The migraine inducing fonts. The bland, Byzantine maze of uninformative interface screens. The inscrutable galaxy map, where all names disappear at any useful zoom level. The flat, uninteresting ships and combat screens.

I don't give a rat's behind about DEA's,AU's,PP's, RP's, and all the rest of this crap, especially when you're not supposed to even MESS with it anyway, and let "uncle viceroy" take care of everything.

They should've named this one "Galactic Bureaucrat Tycoon". If I wanted this kind of experience, I'd join the U.N. Anyone who genuinely enjoys this mess should seek help.

Yeah, I know that all the faithful are going to jump on me now, flaming away about what a wuss I am, how I don't understand it, how dumb I am, etc.,etc. Save your breath guys. I've got three words for ya.

Bite me, Fanboy.

	27-02-2003 20:12									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by JonahFalcon The finances are very very organized. When you learn the finance sliders and budget, you're home free. That, and proper task force management, are the keys to winning.

WTF?

When people talk about winning at Master of Orion, I want to hear **** like "build ships with weapon X", "watch out for race X in the Senate", "technology X works great in ground combat", and "I hate the ?#!%# spies!"

The last thing I want to hear is "learn the finance sliders" and "proper task force management"

	27-02-2003 20:42									#29
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by mrbilll Life's too short to play galactic spreadsheet simulators. The acolytes of Moo3 insist that you've just gotta dedicate 20-30 hours of your life to learning to love it. I'd rather just skip ahead to the cyanide cool aid. Where to start? The migraine inducing fonts. The bland, Byzantine maze of uninformative interface screens. The inscrutable galaxy map, where all names disappear at any useful zoom level. The flat, uninteresting ships and combat screens. I don't give a rat's behind about DEA's,AU's,PP's, RP's, and all the rest of this crap, especially when you're not supposed to even MESS with it anyway, and let "uncle viceroy" take care of everything. They should've named this one "Galactic Bureaucrat Tycoon". If I wanted this kind of experience, I'd join the U.N. Anyone who genuinely enjoys this mess should seek help. Yeah, I know that all the faithful are going to jump on me now, flaming away about what a wuss I am, how I don't understand it, how dumb I am, etc.,etc. Save your breath guys. I've got three words for ya. Bite me, Fanboy.

Fanboy? Somebody called me?

You don't like the game? Sorry to hear that bud, to each his/her own I guess.

There's other games out there... you'll find something else you like I'm sure.

Good luck !

*Yoda goes back to play MOO3*

	27-02-2003 20:46									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by mrbilll ...Exactly the same as in another thread...

Well, of course, SPAMMING is a really good way of ensuring that everybody takes your opinion really seriously, and nobody AT ALL will think of you as a self-obsessed little **** with an axe to grind. So, well done you.