27-02-2003 03:38									#1
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GoW has invited us to trade world maps. In the past I have commented to GhengisFarb that we would be willing to swap our WM for his ... as his holds the full extent of the northern world and a rumored island to the west. At the time GoW was a potential ally against ND, however, with the ever changing tide of world politics, an ally can become a future enemy.

Eventually we will want a full World Map. Eventually we're probably going to have to give up our map. The question then becomes when, to whom, and for what price?

Please discuss. Mapmaking is coming shortly.

--Togas

	27-02-2003 12:37									#2
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It is my opinion to trade world maps as soon as possible and trade with potential enemies first.

Why you ask? Because:

(1) This gives them as little info as possible. The later we wait the more of our territory and cities we will expose.

(2) If we trade with other civs we would also be giving whoever we trade maps with all of the info we have collected not just what we collected on our own.

Therefore I would think we should trade world maps with ND and GoW as soon as possible.

	27-02-2003 15:21									#3
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No, no, no, no!

Letting our enemies see our vast uncolonized lands!?
Letting them see our lack of iron!?
Letting them know where to strike for the greatest effect!?
Surely you cannot be serious. We must wait and when we are strong we will give them our maps and it will act as a deterrent. Now it will make them think we are weak and defenceless, which we are.
No map trade, at least not until we've roaded the iron!

	27-02-2003 22:55									#4
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Once the issue with ND is resolved to our satisfaction, sure. Otherwise, I do not trust GoW to in turn trade with ND and give away our weekensses.

	27-02-2003 23:17									#5
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It's true that we should trade our WM first with GoW and ND, like Thrumble said. But only after we have the iron connected, otherwise our enemies would get accurate information about our main weakness, and they could estimate when we will get that valuable resource and strike before.

	27-02-2003 23:42									#6
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I say trade it. We need knowledge of the world. ND and GoW combined already know all about our lands. They have scouted it extensively.

	27-02-2003 23:46									#7
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I say trade!.

ND has had scouts waltzing all over our lands. They (should) already know of our lack of Iron. But this does not denote weakness, only the lack of a credible counterattack capability.

GoW has had Basher and Basher jr deep into our southern unincorporated territories. They have probably not mapped as much of our realm as the Neu Devils, but enough to have perked an interest.

We on the otherhand have been somewhat slow about exploring northwards. We will be gleaning intel over the significant northern reaches of the continent we intend to rule.

I believe that we gather significantly more useful info about GoW and ND than we will be giving.

	28-02-2003 00:56									#8
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I agree to trade map now. As Fibrizzo said it could be more careful to wait until we have iron connected, but as both ND & GoW have scouted this area, they can already see it on their map and anyway they will always be able to know if we have connected iron (they'll if there is a city or not near the iron).

	28-02-2003 04:02									#9
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I agree with the traders. I’m sure Arne has seen every part of the South by now and maybe fathered a few barbarian children while he was at it

	01-03-2003 18:26									#10
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I agree with the common opinion that trading maps will help us more than hurt, because we know almost nothing of any land other than Spain (what we claim it's Spain I mean). Timing it after the iron is connected would send them a message of strength and power, but if we cannot wait it's ok to do it now.