27-02-2003 07:33									#1
	Lovely, it doesn't work. Suffering from ads?

This is what I get for breaking my rule of "try before you buy" and buying the game without first playing a pirated version - it always seems to be a huge disapointment or lesson in frustration.

I've bought the game, installed it, click on the Icon and... nothing. The cursor will quickly flash into a CD icon and back, but nothing happens. Suspecting that this is due to over-zealous copy protection I tried creating a cloneCD image of the play disk and running it in daemon tools, still no luck.

As it is, I have no idea what the problem is. But I still suspect it's due to copy protection. I'm wishing I didn't cancel the download of the game I had going when I was able to reserve a copy earlier today - would be nice to have a no-cd crack available to try.



If this turns out to be because of copy protection, I seriously doubt that I will ever buy another game. Certainly not from developers or publishers that insist on using "copy proection", anyways.

	27-02-2003 07:55									#2
	Suffering from ads?

sorry to hear that.... worked without a hitch on my system...

	27-02-2003 10:24									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Try it on another computer (if available) to see if it is just your CD ROM drive that doesn't like the copy protection. And just wait for the NoCD crack. Shouldn't be long and maybe one is out already (I didn't check as I don't need one).

	27-02-2003 15:57									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Lots of other people have the same problem and that seems to be the consensus, Todd Hawks.

I haven't been able to find a no-cd crack yet...


This is really stupid. The people who come up with these copy protection schemes must be complete morons - do they not realise this has no effect on pirates what-so-ever, only on their legitamte customers?

	27-02-2003 18:22									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Osweld Lots of other people have the same problem and that seems to be the consensus, Todd Hawks. I haven't been able to find a no-cd crack yet... This is really stupid. The people who come up with these copy protection schemes must be complete morons - do they not realise this has no effect on pirates what-so-ever, only on their legitamte customers?

Most likely they arenot aware of that or it their are they donot care. It remain me of the late 1970 's and early 1980's disk base copy protection which was worst than the one use today on CD's. First the copy protect damage you 5 1/4 inch and 3 1/2 disk drive. Second it can damage the disk or disks which have the program on then so either the first time or N time it would not load the program into memony.

	27-02-2003 21:28									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm not sure if this is the same problem or not, but my cursor was flashing in and out. Mainly out. I did several things. I think what dd the trick was going into one of the files on my C drive and changing the cursor selection from 1 to 2. I'm not at my home computer so I don't remember the name of the file but maybe this will help someone.

	27-02-2003 21:36									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

You're kidding right? What stops you from buying the game - rewarding their effort - and downloading a no-cd exe?

	27-02-2003 21:49									#8
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by be0wulfe What stops you from buying the game - rewarding their effort - and downloading a no-cd exe?

Ethics.

I'm not going to pay them if they insist on these idiotic buisness practices. It's the corporate executives who inflate prices and waste money developing these useless systems that only punish their legitimate customers.



Besides, if I had continued downloading the game instead of going to the store and buying it, I would be playing it right now. Instead, I have to go hunting for a seperate no-cd crack - which, coincedantly, is illegal and you wouldn't be allowed to ask for one in their tech forum even though it's required to get the game working.

Serves me right for buying a game I thought was good instead of pirating it.

	27-02-2003 22:05									#9
	Support Apolyton

"a seperate no-cd crack - which, coincedantly, is illegal"

No-CD cracks are, in fact, perfectly legal, as long as you legitimately own the software they were written for. Distributing cracks is not.

Last edited by Nephilim on 27-02-2003 at 22:12

	27-02-2003 22:29									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Most games have copy protection. IIRC, the problem is apparently with certain CD drives and how they handle it. It's too bad that the manufacturer of the CD drives elected to not make them compatible with well-known software standards. Developers have a right to protect their intellectual property, after all.
The vast majority of buyers have no problems installing or running the game. Sorry some folks have this problem, but it is symptomatic of a peculiar hardware combination and not the game's fault.

	27-02-2003 23:46									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Do we know that the problem is my cd-drive? Before I go buy a new one, when I thought mine was fine until now. I don't have any idea how or where to get a no-cd patch and attempts in the past to find one for me have failed. And what to do with it when I get it.

Beowulfe-this has obviously never happened to you, or you would have a much different opinion. I always support all their products and to end up like this is a nightmare.

	28-02-2003 00:02									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by gunnergoz Most games have copy protection. IIRC, the problem is apparently with certain CD drives and how they handle it. It's too bad that the manufacturer of the CD drives elected to not make them compatible with well-known software standards.

From what I have read, Plextor - well considered to be the best in the industry - has stated that they will never officially support copy protection because it interferes with the quality of their drives.

Also, it is the software developer's responsibility to make it work on the hardware, not vice-versa. There is no mention of any specific CD drives that will or will not work in the requirements.

quote: Developers have a right to protect their intellectual property, after all.

Protect it from what, their customers? No one who pirates the game has to deal with this because they have the means of bypassing it easily.

And I'd question their right to sell purposely flawed products. (That is, as I understand it, what most copy protection is - flaws and errors on the CD that can not be easily reproduced.)

quote: The vast majority of buyers have no problems installing or running the game. Sorry some folks have this problem, but it is symptomatic of a peculiar hardware combination and not the game's fault.

Actually, it seems that a great number of people are having difficulties with this in some form or another. Many people have been complaining that it is over-working their CD and constantly running it, which can also cause slowdowns and stuttering. There are also lots of others who can not get it to run at all.

quote: Do we know that the problem is my cd-drive? Before I go buy a new one, when I thought mine was fine until now. I don't have any idea how or where to get a no-cd patch and attempts in the past to find one for me have failed. And what to do with it when I get it.

I would ask in the official forums to be sure... but I've yet to see any techsupport there answering questions.

	28-02-2003 00:27									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Oh, and you might want to try some of the suggestions in this thread on the official forum, danwhit.

Didn't help me any, but it might help you.

	28-02-2003 00:58									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I've finally found a no-cd crack on eMule. It fixed my problem. Thank god for the pirates!
(If you want to get it form there, don't get the ~60kb files, they are actually phone dialers. The crack I got was roughly a 2.2mb .rar file - search for "moo3")


danwhit (and anyone else who is having this problem): if you are unable to get it working, PM me and I'll get back to you later.

	28-02-2003 01:12									#15
	... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

@Nephilim - No-cd cracks are, in fact, very illegal in the U.S. - please see the anti-circumvention clauses in the DMCA (see http://www.chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/ for starters). I believe Britain also has a very similar law, that probably also makes no-cd cracks very illegal. It does not matter if you bought the game or not.

@Osweld - For you to stand there and say "Ethics" is why you won't purchase a game with cd copy protection *and yet still play it*, is stunningly hypocritical. "Greed" would be more accurate. The solution is simple - if the game has cd protection and you do not like that, then do not play it or buy it. You do not have an innate 'right' to play a game, especially when a lot of hard work went into its creation. If you believe in "ethics", perhaps you also believe in "karma". I sincerely hope something you pour a lot of time into is stolen, just so you understand the other side.
The sad thing is, copy protection exists because so many people have your kind of "ethics". If everyone had a more altruistic sense of ethics, copy protection wouldn't be needed.

	28-02-2003 01:40									#16
	Re: ... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by asonetuh @Osweld - For you to stand there and say "Ethics" is why you won't purchase a game with cd copy protection *and yet still play it*, is stunningly hypocritical. "Greed" would be more accurate. The solution is simple - if the game has cd protection and you do not like that, then do not play it or buy it. You do not have an innate 'right' to play a game, especially when a lot of hard work went into its creation. If you believe in "ethics", perhaps you also believe in "karma". I sincerely hope something you pour a lot of time into is stolen, just so you understand the other side. The sad thing is, copy protection exists because so many people have your kind of "ethics". If everyone had a more altruistic sense of ethics, copy protection wouldn't be needed.

It's all a matter of perspective. I see the corporate executives who inflate prices, make shody products, trick people with marketing gimicks, and invest money in useless and counter-productive things like copy protection as the real pirates. Software piracy is nothing but karma. Think of it as payback for all the extra bucks they've suckered out of me, and all the shody games I've bought over the years.

And I would not mind at all if something I pour a lot of time into is copied (piracy is not theft). You know what they say - imitation is the biggest form of flattery. Infact, I'd be quite proud to see something I put my soul into being exchanged over the net as much as a game like moo3.


We're getting a little off topic here, 'though. Don't pay much attention to my veiled threats of piracy, I just had to have somewhere to rant and release my frustration since I don't think they'd of appretiated it on the offical forums.

	28-02-2003 01:40									#17
	Re: ... Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by asonetuh @Nephilim - No-cd cracks are, in fact, very illegal in the U.S. - please see the anti-circumvention clauses in the DMCA (see http://www.chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/ for starters). I believe Britain also has a very similar law, that probably also makes no-cd cracks very illegal. It does not matter if you bought the game or not. @Osweld - For you to stand there and say "Ethics" is why you won't purchase a game with cd copy protection *and yet still play it*, is stunningly hypocritical. "Greed" would be more accurate. The solution is simple - if the game has cd protection and you do not like that, then do not play it or buy it. You do not have an innate 'right' to play a game, especially when a lot of hard work went into its creation. If you believe in "ethics", perhaps you also believe in "karma". I sincerely hope something you pour a lot of time into is stolen, just so you understand the other side. The sad thing is, copy protection exists because so many people have your kind of "ethics". If everyone had a more altruistic sense of ethics, copy protection wouldn't be needed.

Who are you, Jack Valenti? The DMCA usurps fair use for profit. If you own a copy of the game, fair use allows you to be able to use the game for any personal use you want. What's sad are people who feel sympathy for these mega corporations crying because their business model is outdated and they can't attain the heady profit margins their stockholders desire. Hopefully, the various groups fighting the DMCA will be successful in overturning its lucrative pro-business dialog and replace it with something that strikes a balance between business greed and consumer indifference.

For the record, I understand what it's like to see your hard worked code being passed around and enjoyed when you starve. Same with music, movies, etc. I'm not saying there isn't a problem with piracy. Until they find a way to punish the PIRATES and NOT the PAYING customers, I fully support any hack that will allow me to play the game I bought.

	28-02-2003 01:41									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: I sincerely hope something you pour a lot of time into is stolen, just so you understand the other side.

Didn't he just spend about $50 on a game that doesn't work?

Edit: Did you all HAVE to post at the same time as me?

	28-02-2003 02:03									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

@Harry - Believe me, I hate the DMCA. In fact, the reason I brought it up was because it seemed that Nephilim was not aware of it (or how restrictive it is) by saying no-cd cracks are legal (I *do* believe they should be legal for those who purchased the damn product - or better yet, not be needed at all). The more people who are aware of (and incensed by) what it does to fair use rights, the better.

@Osweld - Fair enough on the corporate comments (Electronic Arts has 'pirated' enough of my money, and I refuse to give them another penny). :-) I'll agree to disagree that piracy is/is not theft.

Last edited by asonetuh on 28-02-2003 at 02:11

	28-02-2003 02:26									#20
	Got spare money?

Fair enough, asonetuh. I follow a writer that flames up at the mere mention of DMCA; I'll have to send you some links.

	28-02-2003 02:41									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

The real losers are the people in small development shops who do not see a true return on thier investment of time to create the game. I would not shed a tear for Infogrames or their shareholders, but the guys at Firaxis and QuickSilver deserve better.

As for the copy protection, it is not there to keep well wired internet veterans from pirating the game. It is there to keep people less 'talanted' from knocking off a copy for everyone at school or in their extended family or group of friends. The old saying goes that locks are to keep honest people honest; they never stop real thieves.

	28-02-2003 03:55									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by gunnergoz Most games have copy protection. IIRC, the problem is apparently with certain CD drives and how they handle it. It's too bad that the manufacturer of the CD drives elected to not make them compatible with well-known software standards.

um, not always. I bought NWN a few months ago and it ran perfectly fine until the developer ADDED more copy protection in a patch release. The game stopped working and, for the first time ever, I hunted down and used a no-CD crack.

It's great. Now I can play NWN anytime I want without using a CD.

quote: Developers have a right to protect their intellectual property, after all.

They also have a responsibility to ensure that their software will run on the platforms they claim.

quote: The vast majority of buyers have no problems installing or running the game. Sorry some folks have this problem, but it is symptomatic of a peculiar hardware combination and not the game's fault.

my experience suggests otherwise.

	28-02-2003 04:00									#23
	Re: Re: ... Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon Who are you, Jack Valenti? The DMCA usurps fair use for profit. If you own a copy of the game, fair use allows you to be able to use the game for any personal use you want.

Absolutely. The highest court in the land has already ruled on this issue.

Big corporations *know* that the DMCA is unconstitutional. They use it as a big stick to threaten individuals, but they have backed down every time someone was willing to defend themselves in court.

They do not want the DMCA to be tested in court, because it will be thrown out.

	28-02-2003 05:58									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

hey osweld

where and how did you get that nocd crack? I tried eMule I can not see the one you described

and since Iam buying the game but because of extream isolation I am forced to wait...and I need to check it out.

A: because I have been waiting three years already!
B: see if it is worth cancelling my pre buy.
c: so I can start practicing up to kick some multiplayer ass

I am almost 100% i will buy and enjoy the game as most of my fun comes from multiplayer...and in multi it all depends on how much personality the player has...sort of you get out what you put in thing...

	28-02-2003 07:26									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The real losers are the people in small development shops who do not see a true return on thier investment of time to create the game. I would not shed a tear for Infogrames or their shareholders, but the guys at Firaxis and QuickSilver deserve better.

I've considered mailing $20 or so to a developer with a note saying "keep up the good work" with games I've pirated and liked... I haven't ever done that though, I always end up buying the retail copy. Maybe I ought to try that sometime, though.

I wonder how they would react if I tell them I've pirated the game in the note. Probably not a good idea to do that when you're giving them your address... then again, $20 for a copy of the game is probably more then they get from the developer.

	28-02-2003 08:48									#26
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The real losers are the people in small development shops who do not see a true return on thier investment of time to create the game. I would not shed a tear for Infogrames or their shareholders, but the guys at Firaxis and QuickSilver deserve better.

Don't shed so many tears..... the developers actually only get a small portion of each sale that occurs as royalty. The way developers feed the family is by the publisher shelling out bucks to develope the game.

The publishers are the ones getting shafted by the pirates.

	28-02-2003 19:24									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: I've considered mailing $20 or so to a developer with a note saying "keep up the good work" with games I've pirated and liked...

Probably better you didn't. You'd hate to do the right thing and end up in court.

	28-02-2003 21:31									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey, I had this problem but was able to fix it. When I'd click on Moo3, it would just hang at the spinning CD icon.

Note, I'm using Win2K, you might need to adjust the instructions depending on your OS.

Try this, maybe it'll work:
CTR+ALT+DEL and hit the "task list" button. Go to the process tab. The key for me was to end these two processes:
SynTPEnh.exe
SynTPLpr.exe
Once I did this, MoO3 worked. Every time I reboot my machine, I have to kill those processes again.

Even if you don't have those exact processes, experimenting with killing processes might very well work for you. If you kill something important, just reboot and start over.

	02-03-2003 11:24									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The highest court in USA didnot either hear or rule on than case about how long than copyright can last before it become public domane. The court said it is up to congress to
correct this problem before we do. Than copyright can last the entire lifetime of author plus about 100 year afther he die. Instead of haveing one copyright cover evering have different type of copyright for the different media with different lenght of time their are vaid.