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Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
time: 21:26
  Old Post 27-02-2003 20:26
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Al Qaeda Backed Suicide bombers in Northern Iraq. Get a bigger avatar today!

Here's an article in Time magaizine about the Al Qaeda & Iranian backed Islamic milatent group Ansar al-Islam. Ansar has been cunducting a series of suicide bomb attacks against the secular government of Iraqi Kurdistan which was set up following the first gulf war.
quote:

Kurdistan: Death in the Afternoon
TIME's Michael Ware witnesses a suicide bombing by an al-Qaeda linked group in Northern Iraq
By MICHAEL WARE/HALABJA, IRAQ

Wednesday, Feb. 26, 2003
An unsuspecting taxi driver was both the vehicle and a victim of a suicide bombing in Northern Iraq, today — an attack that served as a reminder that there are no rules in the campaign by the Qaeda-linked Ansar al-Islam against the local Kurdish authorities. The fight for control of a tiny sliver of northern Iraq pitches fighters loyal to the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, which rules the eastern part of the territory liberated from Saddam Hussein in 1991, against Ansar, a small cadre of homegrown Islamic militants supported, trained and reinforced by Osama bin Laden's organization. And today, as a Bush administration envoy met Iraqi opposition leaders at Erbil, some 150 miles north of Halabja, Ansar played rough.

A suicide bomber used a Land Rover taxi that regularly plies the route between Halabja and the town of Sayyid Sadiq to help him cross from Ansar-held territory into the zone controlled by government forces. He detonated his charges when confronted by government troops at a roadside checkpoint, killing two soldiers, the taxi driver and himself. The attack coincided with a conference of Iraqi opposition organizations on a post-Saddam political order, attended by Zalmay Khalilzad, President Bush's special envoy to the Iraqi opposition. Though believed to have been simply coincidental, the timing was poignant: Khalizad had come to address the first umbrella gathering of mostly-exiled opposition groups to be held inside Iraq.

The bomber, carrying a package of explosives and ball bearings strapped to his chest, was the sole passenger in the Land Rover taxi, sitting behind the driver and passing through a number of checkpoints. But when he neared Halabja, two wary soldiers had asked the passenger to produce his ID. Although local officials believe the bomber's intended target may have been the nearby military headquarters, once accosted by the government soldiers he knew he would get no further. Opening the left rear door, he stepped out with one hand in his pocket, a finger poised on the trigger mechanism. TIME's correspondent witnessed the explosion from a ridge-top bunker a short distance away. A flash and thick curls of smoke engulfed the road before the crack of the explosion washed across farmers' fields. Moments later, a Kurdish government mortar battery retorted, dropping a round on the lip of an Ansar bunker within view of the chaotic checkpoint scene.

It could have been worse. Four Kurdish soldiers, known as peshmerga (those who face death) were saved by their meal break. They'd been called for lunch at their unit's small command post on the other side of the road as the taxi approached. Another soldier, sitting in his gun emplacement overlooking the site, had watched his comrades cut down, unable to help. In the confusion afterwards a dozen armed men wandered among the wreckage, stepping gingerly through the human remains littering the asphalt. "We're distraught, this was a good man who died here, our friend. We're sad, but we're angry," said one.

The powerful blast hurled the Land Rover almost 40 feet forward, the ball bearings peppering its metal panels with tiny holes. Inside the vehicle's blackened hulk, flesh and blood covered every surface. The car radio sat on the passenger seat, splattered red. On the steering column a small bulb flashed white, pitifully redundant.

One of the soldiers died en route to the hospital, the bodies of his comrade and the taxi driver were quickly removed. But the remains of the bomber were left, untouched in the myriad of places where they fell — a skull fragment with a dangling eye landed on the sentry post roof, more scattered up to 100 feet away. Most gruesome, yet most telling, were two large sets of remains left scornfully among the wreckage. "He'd shaved this morning and it looks like he'd trimmed his hair, probably so he would look less suspicious," said another peshmerga gazing down on his subject.

The Kurdish trenches are hit by mortar and heavy machinegun fire from the Ansar lines on a daily basis. On Monday night, TIME's correspondent had sheltered with a peshmerga frontline unit through a four-hour barrage. But the resort to suicide tactics shifts the boundaries. Some of the soldiers present during the attack at the Zamaqi roadblock claim a suicide bomber struck the Halabja bazaar last year. However, a Kurdish political officer assigned to oversee the Ansar front, Burhan Saeed Sofi from the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan party (which controls the Kurdish region's eastern half) says that attack had involved a bomb planted in advance. "This is the first time they have used a suicide bomber," he says in the headquarters compound his intelligence chiefs believe had been the attacker's ultimate target. For six weeks the frontline command has been waiting for such a strike, he says. "So I don't think it has a relationship with the conference in Erbil because they are always planning these suicide attacks. If they wanted to hit the conference then they would go there."

That assertion is unlikely to comfort the conference delegates seeking to broker agreement on the future of a post-Saddam Iraq. Ansar al-Islam has sent a clear reminder they are willing, and able, to strike anywhere. A month ago they assassinated a senior party and military official in the midst of negotiations with extremist elements. The Kurdish fighters along this frontline are anxiously awaiting the arrival on the battlefield of U.S. bombers and ground troops — to dispatch not only Saddam and Ba'ath Party, but also Ansar and its al-Qaeda backers.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 21:07 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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But Hussein is harmless.




VJ is offline VJ
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Dec 2001
time: 07:26
  Old Post 27-02-2003 21:15
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KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 21:39 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
But Hussein is harmless.






What does this have to do with Hussein?

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 21:45 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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You kidding? They're all buds.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 21:52 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Of course. You know, by the "enemy of my enemy" logic, Hussein is your friend because of his alliance with Turkey over the Kurdish problem...

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:02 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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"Of course. You know, by the "enemy of my enemy" logic, Hussein is your friend because of his alliance with Turkey over the Kurdish problem..."

I don't believe you've heard me say that.
So Hussein has dispatched troops to hunt down the terrorists, Frogger?
I missed that part. My apologies.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:04 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Northern Iraq is in his control?
I thought that the no-fly zone took care of that.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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May 1999
time: 13:26
  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:05
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I don't think that's what he said. He meant both Hussein and the Turks are into suppressing the Kurds, making them buddies.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
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Thumbs down  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:07 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
I don't believe you've heard me say that.
So Hussein has dispatched troops to hunt down the terrorists, Frogger?
I missed that part.


I think you missed the part where this happened in the part of Iraq ruled by the Kurds, not by Hussein. Man, you chicken hawks will twist anything just to be able to believe that you're justified in committing murder.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
time: 21:26
  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:10
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
"Of course. You know, by the "enemy of my enemy" logic, Hussein is your friend because of his alliance with Turkey over the Kurdish problem..."

I don't believe you've heard me say that.
So Hussein has dispatched troops to hunt down the terrorists, Frogger?
I missed that part. My apologies.


Apparantly you missed this part, too:

quote:
the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, which rules the eastern part of the territory liberated from Saddam Hussein in 1991, against Ansar


So Hussein is supposed to send troops into the autonomous area set up for the Kurds as part of the resolution of Gulf War I? Yeah, like we'd allow him to do that.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:10 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Got spare money?

Saying that you're annoyed at Hussein for "allowing" that **** to go on in Northern Iraq is like me saying that the Cubans should be ashamed that they "allow" the unlawful treatment of POWs in Guantanamo.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:12
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Sloww's done his time, so the term "chicken hawk" doesn't apply.

And it's not murder - getting rid of Hussein is a worthy goal, the problem is the entire mess of dealing with post-war Iraq. Hussein (and murdering ******* dictators like him) should not ever have been tolerated by the international community.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:16 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Ohhhh. I get it now.

Hussein, being the decent guy he is, doesn't harbor resentment that the liberation took place in 1991.
"No fly" ? How about walking then?

And Che, stuff it; you pan-handling shock jock.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:21 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Hussein, being the decent guy he is, doesn't harbor resentment that the liberation took place in 1991.
"No fly" ? How about walking then?


a) IIRC the US actually guarantees the autonomy of the entire region under the aegis of the northern no-fly zone. Could be wrong, but I seem to remember this.

b) If he could "walk" in and not get his ass handed to him then why would he let the Kurds (who he loathes) operate some of the most profitable oilfields in the country for their own benefit?

The Kurds and a few other groups (like Ansar) have been running what is fundamentally an independent country since 1991.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
time: 00:26
  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:23 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Hussein, being the decent guy he is, doesn't harbor resentment that the liberation took place in 1991.
"No fly" ? How about walking then?

And Che, stuff it; you pan-handling shock jock.


He's not allowed to send troops in either. Northern Iraqi is totally free of Hussein's influence. Which makes it interesting that an abandoned chem factory there (in the part controlled by Ansar al-Islam) was cited by Powell as evidence that Hussein is linked with al-Qaeda.

"Pan-handling shock jock?!?" I haven't been a jock for years!

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:26 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Hell, Frogger. He does what he wants so far.
You think the U.N. is going to act, if they "walk in" ?
Proposes debate. I'm still trying to recover from that side-splitter.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:27 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Hell, Frogger. He does what he wants so far.
You think the U.N. is going to act, if they "walk in" ?
Proposes debate. I'm still trying to recover from that side-splitter.


You're breaking up here. What the hell are you trying to say?

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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Dec 2000
time: 00:26
  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:28
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1. the no fly zone does not rule out iraqi control. The shiite south is also a no fly zone, but is under saddams control, as are the Northern cities of Kirkuk and Mosul, despite being in the no fly zone.

2. The PUK zone is outside of Saddams control. AL ansar dominates a small area just south of the PUK zone. I believe the Saddam ruled zone begins is just south of that. So if Saddam were to move into the the Al ansar zone, its unlikely either the PUK or the US would stop him.

3. Powell stated that Iraq has a high level agent in Al ansar.
Now he didnt say how he knows that, so those who think Powell was lying can dismiss it. Additionally he did not clarify the position of that agent - is he a liason between al ansar and Iraqi intel, or is he a mole???

Previously Jeff Goldberg writing in the New Yorker cited ties between Iraq and al ansar based on interviews with Al ansar prisoners held by the Kurds (PUK) of course the response to that is that the info is unreliable, since the prisoners were in custody of the Kurds, who have motive to link Saddam to terrorism.

So basically we dont know. But we should at least keep our arguments logical.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:30
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Hell, Frogger. He does what he wants so far.
You think the U.N. is going to act, if they "walk in" ?
Proposes debate. I'm still trying to recover from that side-splitter.


The UN doesn't have to "act" since they've already set up the continuous mechanism for enforcement of the no-fly zones. (US and UK aircraft operating from Saudi, Turkish, Kuwaiti and Bahraini bases)

The northern no-fly zone is separate from the Kurdish autonomous zone, but the enforcement "rights" and mechanism is already in place. Iraqi ground forces would be slaughtered from the air.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:31 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Hell, Frogger. He does what he wants so far.
You think the U.N. is going to act, if they "walk in" ?


No, the US will, and has. He was kicking Kurdish ass until the US said, the Kurds are under our protection now, drew a line in the sand, and said, don't cross it. He hans't for roughly twelve years.

It is possible that he's aiding Ansar al-Islam, as they're fighting the Kurds, but no links have been shown as of yet. So far only the fact that they exist in Iraq has been offered as proof that Iraq is helping al-Qaeda, even if it's in a part Hussein doesn't control.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 22:44
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


So far only the fact that they exist in Iraq has been offered as proof that Iraq is helping al-Qaeda, even if it's in a part Hussein doesn't control.


see my post above for the evidence that has been offered and the rejoinders

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 23:50
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We don't want to allow Saddam in that region, nor could we trust him to cooperate against terrorists if he was back in Northern Iraq. Thus it becomes preferable if Saddam could be removed so forces could be introduce to that region to fight the pro-Al Queda fighters.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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  Old Post 27-02-2003 23:59 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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I don't want him to go there, I'm merely pointing out that he's not knocking people over, hurrying to rectify the situation.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 28-02-2003 00:03 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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And we're merely pointing out that if he tried he'd get his ass kicked.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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  Old Post 28-02-2003 00:34
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if the no fly zones give us the right to hit anything we want, why havent we hit Iraqi forces in MOsul and Kirkuk, or the IRaqi forces that control the South????

This represents a complete misunderstanding of the no-fly zones - they are areas where Iraqi airplanes cant fly - they are patrolled by US and UK aircraft, who attack Iraqi air defenses that threaten the US and UK aircraft in question.
They do not target Iraqi ground forces. In the case of the PUK and KDP, the major Kurdish groups, the Kurds have sufficient ground force to hold off the Iraqi army, as long as the Iraqi army doesnt have use of the air. That is not so wrt to the Shia in the south, which is why Saddam holds the South. Nor did the Kurds have the strength to hold any part of the north outside their mountain strongholds.

It may be that without airpower Saddam does not have the strenght to take on Al ansar, but I very much doubt it.

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