28-02-2003 03:43									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Frogger quote: Frogger, I was under the impression that she actually had very real power but just didn't use it. For example her asent to every law is required. She has only once to my knowledge failed to give it, but that law did not become law Which law did she fail to give assent to? The last time the Queen or her representative (the Governor General) tried to do that here was in 1837.

The story that I got (which apparently was not true) is that she had to give her asent or denial to each law individually. When the law in question came up (and in truth I have no idea what law it was), she merely said "read the next one please".

	28-02-2003 04:12									#32
	Increase Your PM Length

She does have to assent to each law (although, IIRC, on routine matters she signs them in batches) but I am not aware of a case in recent memory in which her assent was not granted.

The 1837 date applies to Canada, and I'm fairly sure of it. As for the UK, I don't see why it would have been much different then (by the middle of the 19th century the British monarchy had pretty much lost most of its power). It's possible that there's been an exception to this trend, but I'm not aware of it, and it would seem fairly incredible for the Queen to actually fail to assent in this day and age.

The day she tried to exercise political power here would be the day we declared ourself a republic instead of a dominion.

	28-02-2003 04:27									#33
	Full PM-box? Change here!

My old roomate is Canadian. When he gets drunk he starts making cheers for the Queen. I just look at him curiously. What is it about that? He doesn't really give me an answer when I ask him about it. Are Canadians like our half-brothers. Why do they care about the Queen?

	28-02-2003 04:34									#34
	Suffering from ads?

Having a Queen is a running joke up here. It also is a recognition of the different ways we came to enjoy political equality.

	28-02-2003 04:35									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

She's a figurehead, but she's our figurehead...

	28-02-2003 04:36									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

DuncanK:
Because we're only half-brothers.

Our capital here in BC is Victoria, a city that prides itself on being more British than the Brits.

It has to do with being a part of the Commonwealth countries, as a former colony of Britain. Britain helped to build Canada as we know it, so many Canadians still take pride in their British heritage.

(As do I, look at my avatar).

As for keeping the Queen over a republican government:

Keeping a monarch stabilises the country. Whereas politicians come and go, the Queen is above petty party politics. Thus, to lose the Queen, we Canadians will lose a great part of our Canadian heritage.

	28-02-2003 04:36									#37
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: The day she tried to exercise political power here would be the day we declared ourself a republic instead of a dominion.

Why?

	28-02-2003 04:41									#38
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Because then she'd be interfering in our business. Until then we don't want to hurt her feelings.

	28-02-2003 04:45									#39
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Frogger Because then she'd be interfering in our business. Until then we don't want to hurt her feelings.

I think that the monarchy has developed very benevolent feelings. If they were to get involved politically, I would imagine that it would be only after careful consideration and definately on the side of the people.

As an outsider looking in, it is probably a little rosier than it would be being subject to a monarch's will no matter how benevolent.

	28-02-2003 04:50									#40
	Put an end to popups!

Obi:

quote: Keeping a monarch stabilises the country. Whereas politicians come and go, the Queen is above petty party politics. Thus, to lose the Queen, we Canadians will lose a great part of our Canadian heritage.

Oh, pish... We have our own beautiful heritage, we don't need to leech off the Brits.

To me, the monarchy is just a reminder of a time when autocracy was dominant (well, even moreso than now), and it's just totally unnecessary. I say the Brits should cut the Windsors loose. Let 'em keep what they have now, but get them out of Buckingham Palace.

And then we'll get to abolish the Governor General and Lieutenant Governor positions! Take that, Lois Hole!

But that's just me.

	28-02-2003 04:53									#41
	Put an end to popups!

quote: I think that the monarchy has developed very benevolent feelings. If they were to get involved politically, I would imagine that it would be only after careful consideration and definately on the side of the people.

More on the side of the people than those the people elected?

No, thanks. She does right, keeps her nose out of political issues and acts as a symbol of the unity of the Commonwealth.

	28-02-2003 04:54									#42
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'd rather have Elizabeth II as a head of state than Mr. Chretien.

Our connection to the British Empire remains part of Canadian heritage; we're not leeching off at all. Having a Queen helps distinguish us from those Yanks of the South.

	28-02-2003 05:11									#43
	Increase Your PM Length

As long as she doesn't meddle, I agree with you.

	28-02-2003 05:18									#44
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Our connection to the British Empire remains part of Canadian heritage; we're not leeching off at all. Having a Queen helps distinguish us from those Yanks of the South.

Isn't that kind of a sign that alot of Canadians feel we lack a national identity? It just seems like we're clinging to scraps here...

And I think we have plenty to distinguish us from the South: health care, multiculturalism, peacekeeping, etc.

I mean, on the scale of things that bother me, the Queen is pretty low. If she stays, she stays, whatever. But having a monarch on my penny doesn't make me any prouder of being a Canadian, that's all.

Also, a question: Do the Windors get any money out of being royals anymore? Like, a very very small portion of British government money? Or do they just get free housing and their previous riches? I don't know the details.

quote: I'd rather have Elizabeth II as a head of state than Mr. Chretien.

Ha! I'd actually rather have an elected fool than an old inbred aristocrat.

	28-02-2003 05:20									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Frogger As long as she doesn't meddle, I agree with you.

Would "meddle" imply just something bad, or doing something good as well?

	28-02-2003 05:20									#46
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't think they get a salary. Their work is referred to as "voluntary"...

	28-02-2003 05:23									#47
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 Would "meddle" imply just something bad, or doing something good as well?

It means what it says. Any interference whatsoever. The only exception I would consider would be if the government were to present her with legislation either obtained via unconstitutional means or which were flagrantly unconstitutional.

Then her rejection would be in order to uphold the established democratic system.

But I'm talking of remote possibilities, like the day the Nazis grab hold of Canada in a coup.

	28-02-2003 05:24									#48
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Frogger I don't think they get a salary. Their work is referred to as "voluntary"...

I believe that they set a level of compensation to meet their needs. It seems I remember a bit of a flap over Charles raising his "salary" when he married.

	28-02-2003 05:25									#49
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Frogger It means what it says. Any interference whatsoever. The only exception I would consider would be if the government were to present her with legislation either obtained via unconstitutional means or which were flagrantly unconstitutional. Then her rejection would be in order to uphold the established democratic system. But I'm talking of remote possibilities, like the day the Nazis grab hold of Canada in a coup.

Gotcha...Totally democratic...Let the people Rule!!

	28-02-2003 05:28									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Isn't that kind of a sign that alot of Canadians feel we lack a national identity? It just seems like we're clinging to scraps here.

No, I agree. We have many differences from the US, in terms of our culture, particularly in the areas you mention.

As for the Queen, she's part of that. Canada, as a former British colony has a long history of co-operation with Britain. It's as much a part of our culture, as national healthcare.

While this is less so as the country changes demographically, historically, British contribution remains.

quote: Ha! I'd actually rather have an elected fool than an old inbred aristocrat.

I'd rather have a head of state who can actually be understood.

	28-02-2003 05:29									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well, you better hope that Liz lives to be 120 then, because the future don't look bright.

	28-02-2003 05:35									#52
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Indeed.

What happened to the last 2 kings named Charles?

Long live the Queen.

	28-02-2003 05:40									#53
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Is it true that you Canadians never had a revolution because we had a revolution and you wanted to establish a national identitiy by not doing what we do?

	28-02-2003 05:41									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That's why there weren't any Charles for 350 years.

	28-02-2003 05:43									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Is it true that you Canadians never had a revolution because we had a revolution and you wanted to establish a national identitiy by not doing what we do?

That's as good a reason as any.

But the more accepted version is that the British realised that attempting to maintain a direct rule over their colonies in British North America would be futile. If they'd tried then they would have had a revolution on their hands in a while. So they slowly granted more and more political power to local democratic leaders.

	28-02-2003 06:19									#56
	Tired of ads?

Wow I was just joking, but I found this in the encyclopedia.

"Ties to Britain were fostered by feelings of rivalry toward the United States."-Encarta on Canada

And 40,000 American Traitors (or British Loyalists if you are Canadian) moved to Canada after the revolution. That explains a lot.

I wish my schools would have taught me more about Canada. There is a lot I don't know.

	28-02-2003 06:27									#57
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: And 40,000 American Traitors (or British Loyalists if you are Canadian) moved to Canada after the revolution. That explains a lot

No, what it does is demonstrate the depth of the divide in the US over the Revolution. There were as many residents of the US that actively didn't want to revolt as those that did.

And once the bloody colonial traitors (or revolutionaries, if you prefer) started their revolt they persecuted, lynched and exiled the Loyalists...

	28-02-2003 06:28									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It also didn't help that you kept trying to invade.

	28-02-2003 06:30									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Frogger It also didn't help that you kept trying to invade.

You didn't have to fight back. We only wanted to free you from British opression.

	28-02-2003 06:31									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You Americans really have this problem with inventing wars to fight for other people.