28-02-2003 01:07									#1
	Question for whoever is savvy in academic politics... Tired of ads?

Here's the situation: I'm currently working on my master's in computer science, and am slated to graduate in December. At that point I'll either get a job (if the economy has recovered) or else start working on my Ph.D (if the economy hasn't recovered, or if my master's thesis goes as well as I'm hoping it will).

The problem is that my advisor (the guy who is also funding me) has an awful track record when it comes to graduating people in the doctorate program. He's pretty good at getting master's students out the door (so there's no need for me to ditch him just yet), but if he's my Ph.D advisor then I'm going to wind up being stuck here for at least another three or four years after I get my master's.

There is another professor whose research more-or-less coincides with my intended dissertation topic, and I'm pretty sure that he'd also be willing to fund me (or else that I'll be independently funded come December). He's also got a much better track record at graduating people from the doctorate program.

The question is: what are the possible ramifications of me ditching my advisor come December and finding another? I'll have already taken all of the classes taught by my current advisor by that point, and my new advisor will have more seniority than my current advisor (my current advisor is an associate professor, my new advisor will be a full professor).

I can't think of any problems that'll bite me in the ass if I switch advisors, but I'm also pretty clueless. Can here anybody who's been through the mill think of any red flags I might be missing?

	28-02-2003 01:17									#2
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Don't know, personally, but I don't see what the problem is.

First, make sure the other guy will tke you before you dump the current one.

Second, butter your current adviser up with some **** about how it's nothing against him, just that the other guy's research fits better with your own intended work.

	28-02-2003 01:22									#3
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I can't stand dealing with **** like this, by the way. I avoid the administration at all costs and attempt to keep a low profile.

Some folks I know love dealing in it. Most seem to be the guys that can't do what they're educated for, so they either take it out on everybody else or use their BS skills to keep themselves in their job/on the track to their degree.

	28-02-2003 01:36									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger I can't stand dealing with **** like this, by the way.

You and me both. If it were up to me then I wouldn't even need an advisor to get my degree. But, some hoops you avoid, and others you gotta jump through, and this is one of the latter. Such is life.

	28-02-2003 01:53									#5
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I changed a member of my area committee when it morphed into my thesis committee to a new faculty member who was doing more relevant work. The dumped member was not offended at all, indeed he recognised the point of changing.

It depends on what this guy is like and what influence he has in the department. Without knowing that it's hard to answer your question.

	28-02-2003 02:14									#6
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That's exactly the problem -- I'd also like to know what kind of influence he's got in the department, but like I said, I'm pretty clueless -- I've no idea how I'd go about finding out the extent of his influence, since I've no idea what "influence" even means in an academic environment.

I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't be offended over my switching advisors, which would render the question moot. However, I'd still like to get an idea of how exactly this guy could make my life miserable, knowing that he doesn't have a great deal of seniority and knowing that I'll have taken all of his classes by this point.

	28-02-2003 02:17									#7
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What it means is "who is he friends with".

Find out the scuttlebutt around the department.

	28-02-2003 02:27									#8
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Depends on the person.

You say he doesn't have much seniority, that MAY mean he doesn't have many friends in the department. If that's the case, then ditching him shouldn't be bad, even if he gets mad.

	28-02-2003 03:06									#9
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Simple, talk to the new professor, and do the normal suck up that his work is very close to your interest. blah blah blah. Then you can approach your intentions for further education and mention how he would be the perfect advisor. Once the ego drug has had the opportunity to settle in his brain, mention how much you like your current advisor but don't feel he has the expertise to take you to the next level like he does.
You'll get a real good take on his opinion, and how much power he feels the other person has and any potential problems. He may not know as much about it as he thinks he does, but once he's expressed his opinion as fact, (unless he's a real weasel, which you should be smart enough to detect) He will feel obligated to support/protect your desire in this area. The only problem comes if he's a weasel.

RAH
This advice is good not just in acadamia.

	28-02-2003 07:03									#10
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Sweet, thanks. Like I said, I'm pretty sure that the old advisor wouldn't be upset, in which case the question is moot. I just like to sniff out the leaf pile before I jump into it.

	28-02-2003 08:33									#11
	Got spare money?

Another thing you can do is take one semester off, then come back to work with the other professor. This way, it appears that you have gone into the real world to look for a job, but without much luck.

	28-02-2003 14:03									#12
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Shouldn't be a problem to change after the Master's thesis. Of course you never know what goes on behind the scenes in a department. I know from own experience that some **** that's going on never makes it into the uni rumour mills for some reason. Though I wonder:

"The problem is that my advisor (the guy who is also funding me) has an awful track record when it comes to graduating people in the doctorate program."

And the other "got a much better track record at graduating people from the doctorate program."

I don't think he just graduates PhDs that he advised on the Master? You probably can find out whether someone switched from your old advisor to him before, and try to ask 2-3 people directly. If their graduation is relatively recent you should get 1-2 honest opinions.

	28-02-2003 18:12									#13
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Speaking as a certified (and certifiable) professor and thesis advisor:

It's no problem. The only issue would be if your thesis director hadn't had many students over the years, and thus had an inordinate investment in you. But your reference to a track record leads me to believe that he's gotten all of the vicarious jollies he's ever going to get out of someone else's career. And frankly, once you've done it a few times, advising a thesis is a pain in the ass; you never mind when you have one less to do.

Talk to the new guy first, to see if he'll be amenable to taking you on; then propose the switch, assuring the old guy that you still very much want him to be part of the project as a committee member, but it just makes more sense for you to be working with Dr. ___ on this particular project. Unless your current director is a real psycho, this will be just fine.

	28-02-2003 19:51									#14
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Question for whoever is savvy in academic politics...

I am savvy enough to know that telling you to correct "whoever" to "whomever" is a bad political move, academically speaking.