28-02-2003 22:32									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Are you giving me a rough time about the build queue? Let's just say I could have gone straight for the Granary, leaving you with no Warriors for exploration. And where would the Minister of War be then, eh? Nowhere, that's where.

...

Ahem. Sorry.

	28-02-2003 22:36									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

All I need right now is 1 Warrior Division to be the most powerful man alive, and right now, I already fit the bill.

	01-03-2003 00:10									#33
	Increase Your PM Length

FOGET SCOCIAL DEVELOPEMENT! Military Supremacy should be the main idea of our developement.

Communism Communism, Socialism Socialism

Intergrated defence,barracks in every city MAY OUR UNITS DESTROY THE EARTH.... ENSALVE THIER PEOPLES, KILL THE RESITERS!
Global Domination

The flag of apolytonia will fly Over EVERY continent!

(please if I run for election disgard these comments..... Ya sure... ahhhh democracy for all:b

	01-03-2003 00:15									#34
	Increase Your PM Length

ahhhh, i just click edit on dominae's post by accident and why was i allowed to try and edit his stuff?

	01-03-2003 00:28									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

You can edit other people's posts in private forums without any restriction. This is a bug that turned into a feature that is used by some teams in the PTWDG.

	01-03-2003 00:30									#36
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

hi ,

whats so crappy about our start is the fact that we did not move that one tile to the water , now thats "crappy" , ......

have a nice day

	01-03-2003 00:30									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

hmmm, well this could be a considerable problem come elction time. that is if people arent honest and dont change things.

	01-03-2003 02:36									#38
	Inflate your Upload Space

I thought everyone knew...but oh well

It is a bug of these forums that posts are editable by ANYONE. Please refraim from doing so unless that person has given you permission to do so.

OK. -DC ...Sorry, I couldn't resist

Last edited by DarkCloud on 01-03-2003 at 03:56

	01-03-2003 03:34									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat We should try to settle on hilly area we find. It will give bonuses to defense. We can't avoid all desert either, but try to seize productional foodlands. Thus, we can't get all 'perfect cities' size 20+ here, so don't settle for that. Hey! The captial, is it on a hill?

Much of the game will be decided before we get Sanitation, if the intrasite game is any indication.

	01-03-2003 14:43									#40
	Remove this text

Yeah, it's pretty much what I was thinking too.
So the city-overlap issues and futuristic growth potential should be of the lowest priority. Production should be high...

	01-03-2003 20:57									#41
	Increase the size of your Attachments

hi ,

what made some people settle there , instead of moving that one tile , .......

its not such a bad place , but why , just why on earth there , ......

have a nice day

	01-03-2003 21:16									#42
	Inflate your Upload Space

We can always build a city on the Incense and not lose any use of coastal tiles (at least until much later in the game). Moving to the coast would have necessitated taking the Game out of the starting location, but wouldn't have been much of an issue as we voluntarily delayed our Warrior build a turn anyways.

Building a tile seperated from coast isn't as bad as it's made out to be. It's only bad if we can't fit another city on the coast to use those tiles with. (or if a Whale shows up at 669 )

	01-03-2003 21:25									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Aeson We can always build a city on the Incense and not lose any use of coastal tiles (at least until much later in the game). Moving to the coast would have necessitated taking the Game out of the starting location, but wouldn't have been much of an issue as we voluntarily delayed our Warrior build a turn anyways. Building a tile seperated from coast isn't as bad as it's made out to be. It's only bad if we can't fit another city on the coast to use those tiles with. (or if a Whale shows up at 669 )

hi ,

building on a bonus tile is a no-do , .....

have a nice day

	01-03-2003 21:28									#44
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The bonus for Incense is +1 commerce, and that bonus still takes effect with a city built on it. It's only shields and food bonuses that get covered up.

	01-03-2003 21:49									#45
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Aeson The bonus for Incense is +1 commerce, and that bonus still takes effect with a city built on it. It's only shields and food bonuses that get covered up.

hi ,

and thats why we should not build on it , .....

have a nice day

	01-03-2003 21:56									#46
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The result of building on it would be the same commerce. We get +1 food. +2 food, -1 Shield if we were going to mine it. Given our setup to the north, food is going to be far more important than anything else.

	01-03-2003 22:26									#47
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Aeson The result of building on it would be the same commerce. We get +1 food. +2 food, -1 Shield if we were going to mine it. Given our setup to the north, food is going to be far more important than anything else.

hi ,

we shall get two food anyway , ..... build next to the water , get harbor and we get loads of food there , ....

have a nice day

	02-03-2003 01:31									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by panag hi , we shall get two food anyway , ..... build next to the water , get harbor and we get loads of food there , .... have a nice day

It IS next to the water. It's a good idea Aeson.

Aeson's point is that we lose nothing from the luxery tile if we build on it. The only thing a Civ can lose by building and a bonus tile is food; and since this tile provides absolutely no bonus food resources, building on it wouldn't cause us to lose anything.

	02-03-2003 01:47									#49
	Full PM-box? Change here!

A city on the incense may be a very good idea, depending on the coast line further north and the positions of any possible maritime specials.

It could have 3 normal grasslands and a couple of hills.

	03-03-2003 19:13									#50
	Inflate your Upload Space

hi ,

well now we have the chance to get rid of it thanks to the patch , .....

have a nice day

Last edited by panag on 03-03-2003 at 20:00

	03-03-2003 19:40									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It isn't that crappy, only it isn't that good
IMHO it is pathetic to restart because of the terrain. It is more challenging and more fun to win this way !

Besides there can be some good land W from us and so can be south from the jungle.

	03-03-2003 20:05									#52
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius It isn't that crappy, only it isn't that good IMHO it is pathetic to restart because of the terrain. It is more challenging and more fun to win this way ! Besides there can be some good land W from us and so can be south from the jungle.

hi ,

the start itself is not crappy , but the place of our first city is , ......

we should have moved that one tile towards the water , ....

thats why its crappy now , ....

have a nice day

	03-03-2003 21:03									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by panag we should have moved that one tile towards the water , ....

You know, not being an expert PTW player, I just couldn’t understand why we didn’t move one tile to the ocean. I figured I had to be an expert to understand. I’m glad to see that many experts didn’t understand it either

	03-03-2003 23:15									#54
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by pikesfan You know, not being an expert PTW player, I just couldn’t understand why we didn’t move one tile to the ocean. I figured I had to be an expert to understand. I’m glad to see that many experts didn’t understand it either

Well, let's have a look at the two possibilities:

Current location
Inner+Outer rings:
3+1 hills
1+2 bonus grasslands
2+5 grasslands
1+0 game forest
1+1 forests
0+1 incense desert
0+2 coastal waters

Coastal Hill location (1 tile to the North)
Inner+Outer rings:
2+1 hills
0+1 bonus grassland
3+2 grassland
0+0 game forest
0+1 forest
1+0 incense desert
1+4 coastal waters
1+3 desert
added advantages: coastal, on a hill

Now, I am not an expert player either, but can someone explain why we'd be better off building upon that coastal hill? MUCH crappier inner ring and crappier outer ring. We would be giving up 2 bonus grasslands, 2 regular grasslands, game forest, forest, and a hill in exchange for more coastal waters and more desert. Huh?

The advantage of being a coastal city has no effect until Map Making, which is at least 50-60 turns away. And even then, with a 60-shield Harbour, the coastal tiles are arguably worse than mined/roaded grasslands (giving the same food, but no production, just more commerce - with no possibility to later enhance the effect of mining by railroading).

I do admit I may be missing something that is obvious to those that frequent the Strategy forum... but I think that considering our current knowledge of our starting location, Apolyton is where it should be, or is it not?

Do not get me wrong, this is not to "blindly" defend a decision I co-took. I would really like to hear which of the adjacent tiles would be better to build upon and why.

	03-03-2003 23:51									#55
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think it was the best spot to build on given what we knew of the terrain (and our tech/build path) at that point. Given what we know now, building on the west Hill would have been marginally better, as we could have left the hut alone for a while, and we gave up the initial shield advantage of using the Game for the first Warrior anyways. You can still get a 4 turn first Warrior from a Shielded Grassland with an Industrial Worker if the mine is started on the same turn as the city is founded as it would have been in this case.

The other options, N Hill (very bad), NE Grassland (very bad), NW Hill (no point), and E Grassland (delays the Worker getting to the Shielded Grassland by an extra turn, opens the hut with no chance for a Settler) are all less useful moves than just staying put.

	04-03-2003 12:12									#56
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I'm not worried about our first city. As pointed out before, it is a good spot. I'm worried about possible future cities. Not much good land around. So let's just focus on scouting and planning and not on whining about bad starts, OK?

	04-03-2003 16:41									#57
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I'm not worried about our first city. As pointed out before, it is a good spot. I'm worried about possible future cities. Not much good land around. So let's just focus on scouting and planning and not on whining about bad starts, OK?

I agree!!
We can still win!
And if it appears we are in a bad position we can still have influence, because weaker civs are the key to victory for the stronger: if one team becomes incredibly powerful but all are allied against that team it will lose, despite its good starting position
Always look on the bright side of life.....

	07-03-2003 00:30									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

What are we going to do if better land are discovered in the west? Expand fast to the west or build cities in not so good land around our capital?

EDIT: sorry I just found the city placement thread... questions aswered.

Last edited by Hagbart on 07-03-2003 at 01:22

	07-03-2003 00:57									#59
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Both.

	08-03-2003 22:56									#60
	Suffering from ads?

hi ,

we should on the long run spread some settlers out as far as we can , maybe for a lux , iron , who knows , but right now we should start to build as many as we can "semi borg style" ones we have our borders outlined we can have an army at the borders and let the "downtown" produce buildings and workers , ....

have a nice day