28-02-2003 05:22									#1
	Iraq agrees to destroy missiles Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2806795.stm

Could this be a coup against US efforts for a second resolution?
---------------------------
Iraq has agreed in principle to destroy its al-Samoud II missiles, a United Nations spokeswoman has said.
The announcement came after the UN's chief weapons inspector Hans Blix said the inspections aimed at disarming Iraq had produced "very limited" results.

He made the comments in a report due to be submitted to the Security Council on Saturday, a draft copy of which was obtained by the BBC.

Mr Blix has given Baghdad until Saturday to start destroying the missiles, which weapons inspectors say are capable of travelling beyond the limits set by the UN after the 1991 Gulf War.

A spokeswoman for Mr Blix's office said Iraq had now agreed to the move in a letter to the chief weapons inspector

But US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said destroying the missiles would not be enough to prove Iraq was co-operating with the UN.

"I don't see a change in the pattern at all," he told reporters. "You know, this is exactly what's been going to for years."

"They refuse to co-operate, don't co-operate, drag it out, wait until someone finally nails them with one little piece of the whole puzzle and refuse to do anything about it and then finally when they see the pressure building, they say well, maybe we'll do some of that."

In Mr Blix's draft report, seen by the BBC, he says Iraq could have made greater efforts to find proscribed weapons and to provide credible evidence that some of them have been destroyed.

The latest Security Council debate on Iraq ended on Thursday without any consensus.

The French ambassador at the UN, Jean-Marc de La Sabliere, said the majority of countries "do not think it is time to go to war and it is possible to disarm Iraq by peaceful means".

Military build-up

Meanwhile, Iraq has started moving major elements of a Republican Guard division south, possibly towards Baghdad or Saddam Hussein's home town of Tikrit, according to US defence officials.

The US has been expecting the Iraqi leader to begin concentrating his better forces around the centres of power, the BBC's Pentagon correspondent Nick Childs says.

But US defence officials say that how many of the Republican Guard forces in the north get moved could depend on whether the US gets the final go-ahead to start a major troop build-up in neighbouring Turkey.

After a series of delays, the Turkish parliament was expected to vote on the matter on Thursday, but the vote has been postponed until Saturday at the earliest.

Council divided

The US and UK are hoping the Security Council will pass a second resolution in the coming weeks, saying Iraq has failed to disarm.

The 15 Council members discussed the draft resolution behind closed doors on Thursday, as well as a counter-proposal presented by France, Germany and Russia calling for inspections to be stepped up.

But the Security Council remains divided over Iraq, and six non-permanent members have yet to state publicly which proposal they support.

An unnamed ambassador quoted by the Associated Press described the discussions as "bitter and unpleasant".

Any resolution needs the backing of nine members and no veto from one of the five permanent members.

The BBC's Greg Barrow at the UN says that neither the pro- nor the anti-war camp on the Council is likely to gain much from Mr Blix's report.

In other developments:


Chile - which is working closely with another non-permanent member of the UN Security Council, Mexico - says it wants a solution which includes short and specific timetables to complete the inspections

French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin says France does "not exclude the use of force" to disarm Iraq, but that he believes in a diplomatic solution

A sixth aircraft carrier, the USS Nimitz, is ordered to deploy to the Gulf and will leave the US west coast next week, the US Navy says

Several B-2 stealth bombers are to leave for the Gulf in the coming days, US air force officials say.

	28-02-2003 05:28									#2
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More stall tactics. Saddam! Wake up, boy. Bush ain't buying.

	28-02-2003 05:28									#3
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quote: Chile - which is working closely with another non-permanent member of the UN Security Council, Mexico - says it wants a solution which includes short and specific timetables to complete the inspections

The proposal they're studying appears to be Canadian. It's already been rejected by both the Americans and the French. That means it's on the right track...

	28-02-2003 05:31									#4
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According to www.haaretz.com Iraq only agreed to destroy the missles "in principle"

	28-02-2003 05:32									#5
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Shi, that's generally the way diplomacy works. You get an agreement in principle and then you sit down and work out the hows and wheres...

	28-02-2003 05:35									#6
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If I were Sadaam, I would have agreed to dismantle the missiles and any other weapons in violation of 1441 if the US promises not to invade for X amount of time. That would have put the US in a pretty pickle.

	28-02-2003 05:41									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Shi, that's generally the way diplomacy works. You get an agreement in principle and then you sit down and work out the hows and wheres...

The wheres and the hows:

where? " We can't find them because we don't really have them. And if we did find them then that would only mean that we lost them. If we lost them, how could we have known we had them. And if we didn't know we had them then we don't...so there!"

how? "Well if we took this part off then they wouldn't fly futher than 93 miles, which they don't even with this part, but destroying them would make them go to much less than 93 miles and then we could not accept this. So we will agree to take the little part off, but then we won't do it because they don't go that far any way"

Hans Blix: "It appears that the Iraqi's are now willing to conduct substantive talks on their missle systems."

France: " See!!!! We told ya!!!!! NYAH NYAH NYAH !!!"


US:

	28-02-2003 05:46									#8
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That made very little sense.

"Wheres" and "hows" as in how soon the missiles need to be destroyed, how the UN inspectors will verify their destruction, etc.

	28-02-2003 05:47									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Shi, that's generally the way diplomacy works. You get an agreement in principle and then you sit down and work out the hows and wheres...

The demands on Iraq are very clear, and a spart of them Saddam must destroy the missles now. Saddam is just trying to play more games.

	28-02-2003 05:48									#10
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great, more stall tactics. God almighty, can we just get it over with?

	28-02-2003 05:48									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger That made very little sense. "Wheres" and "hows" as in how soon the missiles need to be destroyed, how the UN inspectors will verify their destruction, etc.

Frogger, I understand that. That was an attempt (apparently a poor one) to put a little satire on the once again cat and mouse game that Iraq plays with the world.

	28-02-2003 05:49									#12
	Shi Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You're being fairly thickheaded. The weapons inspectors will want to be there when it happens, and the Iraqis will want to know what they have to do to "destroy" the missiles. If they can salvage the parts to let them build shorter-range missiles, then they'll probably be allowed to.

	28-02-2003 05:51									#13
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Even if they accept this, the warmongers will just start caterwauling about some other triviality.

"Iraq's soil contains anthrax!"
"Every Iraqi kitchen has sharp knives!"
"He's using mobile catering vans to hide the knives!"
"His moustache is too bushy!"

	28-02-2003 05:52									#14
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A bunch of folks here seem to be frothing at the mouth over what is an acceptance of UN demands.

	28-02-2003 05:53									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Even if they accept this, the warmongers will just start caterwauling about some other triviality. "Iraq's soil contains anthrax!" "Every Iraqi kitchen has sharp knives!" "He's using mobile catering vans to hide the knives!" "His moustache is too bushy!"

ALL TRUE!! ALL TRUE!! LET'S ATTACK NOW!!!

	28-02-2003 05:54									#16
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from cnn.com

"Iraq has agreed in principle to begin destruction of its Al Samoud 2 missiles, according to a letter Baghdad sent to U.N. weapons inspectors. But it says it wants a technical mission to discuss the details. "

I am sure. Saddam has been playing games for 12 years and this sounds a whole lot like more game. Krazyhorse I think you have to be the only person to believe Saddam sincerely is willing to go along with inspections.

	28-02-2003 05:57									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger A bunch of folks here seem to be frothing at the mouth over what is an acceptance of UN demands.

In all seriousness Frogger, I think we all expected an 11th hour commitment from Iraq to comply on this point. Blix had laid it out plane on this one. To have said no would have eroded the political support that Saddam is getting in France & Germany.

Does this mean that he will now fully comply with 1441? I doubt it, and so does everone else that you say appears to be frothing at the mouth.

No one will be happier than me if the world gets full compliance. No one will be more suprised eithier.

	28-02-2003 06:01									#18
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How so?

a) I don't think Saddam has had some sort of revelation
b) It's quite possible (probable?) that Saddam has some banned weapons, specificall some stocks of mustard or VX gas
c) It doesn't matter; the inspectors' job is to keep a lid on his activities, not make him as pure as the driven snow
d) His capabilities today are a small fraction of what they were 10 years ago. The inspections have and continue to work. If nothing else, time is not on his side; all of Powell's unfortunate ramblings aside, there's no evidence of continued acquisition of CBN weapons on any significant scale inside Iraq, and the old weapons won't keep forever
e) The "Al-Qaeda connection" is laughable

	28-02-2003 06:03									#19
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I don't want to see full compliance. I want Hussein gone. Like yesterday.

	28-02-2003 06:04									#20
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That's the point. So stop the US gov't lying about its intentions.

	28-02-2003 06:05									#21
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Unfortunately, I don't have much influence with Bush, Frogger.

	28-02-2003 06:05									#22
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The rest of the world has seen through the flimsy excuse you've been feeding them, Dan. It'd be funny if it weren't going to end up with so many dead Iraqis.

	28-02-2003 06:07									#23
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you've been feeding them, Dan

Ay oh. Oh ay.

I must have skipped a couple of pay grades.

	28-02-2003 06:07									#24
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I don't want to see full compliance. I want Hussein gone. Like yesterday.

DanS, I won't argue against you!

However, I don't believe that it is possible to get full compliance with Saddam in charge. So the outcome would remain the same.

	28-02-2003 06:07									#25
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quote: Originally posted by DanS you've been feeding them, Dan Ay oh. Oh ay. I must have skipped a couple of pay grades.

I don't mean you personally, Dan.

I actually find you pretty honest most of the time.

	28-02-2003 06:10									#26
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I actually think you're not a huge pain in the ass most of the time, Frogger.

Last edited by DanS on 28-02-2003 at 06:18

	28-02-2003 06:11									#27
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Then why are the inspectors continually stating that Iraq isn't fully cooperating? Why would Saddam say he wouldn't destroy missles in the first place? Saddam has resisted pressure disarm for over 12 years now, and it doesn't look as though is he is serious about cooperating with Blix now.

	28-02-2003 06:11									#28
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I saw Saddam Hussein on CBS last night in an interview with Dan Rather. What a nice guy! He's a caring man who believes in helping the Iraqi and American people. He puts his faith in Allah, and would never do anything to harm anyone.

	28-02-2003 11:35									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia I saw Saddam Hussein on CBS last night in an interview with Dan Rather. What a nice guy! He's a caring man who believes in helping the Iraqi and American people. He puts his faith in Allah, and would never do anything to harm anyone.

Saddam Hussein ... *sigh*... hes sooo dreamy...

	28-02-2003 11:57									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger A bunch of folks here seem to be frothing at the mouth over what is an acceptance of UN demands.

Count me in.

Saddam accepting these demands is a bad idea. As the US will go to war against him any way, he should keep the missiles to lob them on the US forces.

But he has never been the greatest of strategists, is *my* complaint with Saddam.