28-02-2003 19:52									#1
	What's your opinion on NATO? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

NATO membership's a big issue in Finland (Well, maybe not that big, since few politicians, and no parties, are willing to say they support NATO membership, especially during the election year.) A clear majority of people (something like 70-80%, I think) oppose Finland becoming a NATO member. If there was a referendum I'd vote against NATO membership, too - I don't think it's such a big issue as the paranoids in the far left think, but the increased military costs just wouldn't be worth it.

What I was wondering is whether there's any support for getting out of NATO in countries that are already members, esp. European countries? Didn't France do something like this for some time during the Cold War?

	28-02-2003 20:09									#2
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NATO is ok.

quote: Didn't France do something like this for some time during the Cold War?

they pulled out of the integrated military command in 1966 because they wanted more independent control of their own forces IIRC

	28-02-2003 20:09									#3
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France remained in NATO but insisted that French troops be commanded by French commanders.

	28-02-2003 20:38									#4
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NATO should be dissolved, being a relic of the Cold War

	28-02-2003 20:57									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger NATO should be dissolved, being a relic of the Cold War

I agree. It is anachronistic. Dismantle it and build a new organization that recognizes the political realities and military needs of the present day.

	28-02-2003 21:12									#6
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NATO is dead. Long live Eurocorps!

	28-02-2003 21:47									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac NATO is dead. Long live Eurocorps!

Do you really think UK will pick Europe before the US as
an Alliance partner?

	28-02-2003 22:07									#8
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I'm thinking there are many in Europe that would be just fine with that, Ozz. Just my impression...

-Arrian

	28-02-2003 22:17									#9
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NATO is about the US defending Europe.

I am no longer willing to defend France or Germany or Belgium. These countries leave or we leave.

	28-02-2003 22:20									#10
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NATO needs to expand to counter the growing alien menace.

	28-02-2003 22:20									#11
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that's just silly ned.

you'll be friends again in a year or two

	28-02-2003 22:34									#12
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Belgium should leave NATO, we'd actually be safer without American troops and nukes based in our country. (and American troops passing through the port of Antwerp every time the US declares war on a 3rd world country.)

	28-02-2003 22:43									#13
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Germany should leave the NATO and close the remaining foreign bases. Even better, dissolve the NATO. It's a dinosaur anyway.

	28-02-2003 22:55									#14
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I'm ashamed of our gallup results! But they don't think globally at all, they think 'we don't have enemies, let's not get them'. Fools.

	28-02-2003 22:58									#15
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Austria should not join the NATO. Neutrality is still a high value in Austria, and the current happenings show what it means to be NATO member.
No the the NATO.

	28-02-2003 23:04									#16
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Pekka: I don't really think that you need NATO.

	28-02-2003 23:08									#17
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In theory, NATO is a good concept. But Kosovo prooved that NATO is simply no better than Nazi Germany.

	28-02-2003 23:22									#18
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Woohoo! Savatroll goes into action!

-Arrian

	28-02-2003 23:23									#19
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Woohoo Arrignorant goes into action!

	28-02-2003 23:27									#20
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Azazel, well not really but.. but... it would be lots of fun?

	28-02-2003 23:36									#21
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Sava,

Nato's intervention in Kosovo has been discussed quite a bit, and I do not wish to get into it again here, but "NATO is simply no better than Nazi Germany" is clearly a troll.

To pretend otherwise is silly. The avatar is fitting. Timah!

-Arrian

	28-02-2003 23:40									#22
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SAVA!

	28-02-2003 23:44									#23
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*sigh*

	28-02-2003 23:58									#24
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I think the US and Canada should be thrown out of NATO, so that it can form the nucleus for an all European armed forces.

	01-03-2003 00:03									#25
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Britain should kick the American bases out, and forbid them to renew their leases on assorted British colonies. And maybe leave NATO as well.

	01-03-2003 00:07									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf that's just silly ned. you'll be friends again in a year or two

i agree that its unwise to burn bridges, though i think it will likely take more than a year or two to repair the relations.

I don think NATO needs rethinking, at a minimum. It is very difficult to state the strategic rationale for it now, at least in terms of relations among the great powers. I would be hesitant to dispose of it so soon after admitting the eastern members, who clearly do still see at as an essential part of their security. I can certainly see arguments (from the US pointof view) for demphasizing it, while working on certain bilateral relationships both with NATO members, and non-NATO states.

If i was a citizen of a non-NATO state i would be hestiant to decide one way or the other before the Iraq crisis plays out, and i get better idea of where "the chips fall". In particular i was a Finn I would be closely watching Russian behavior, the nature of Russia's relations with the US on the one hand, and with the Franco-German block on the other.

I would certainly be very reluctant to base any policy on a Euro force, given the unsettled nature of the relations among European states, and the apparent profound differnces they have on grand strategy.

	01-03-2003 05:51									#27
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I think the US and Canada should be thrown out of NATO, so that it can form the nucleus for an all European armed forces.

Could we Canuckistanis stay? I dread to think what the US could do to us if we didn't have allies behind us.

	01-03-2003 06:03									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ned NATO is about the US defending Europe. I am no longer willing to defend France or Germany or Belgium. These countries leave or we leave.

Please do. Can I do something to help you along?

	01-03-2003 06:04									#29
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I am from a non NATO country who wishes to be in NATO (or so the politicians say)

I am against my country joining NATO

	01-03-2003 06:11									#30
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I think NATO is a good insurance policy against a potential resurgence of Russian nationalism. Not that it is likely, but you have to be prepared.

Also, I think that NATO would be a good front edge for the EU in Asia and the Middle East, if Europe would take advantage of it.

Overall, I'm all for NATO.