28-02-2003 21:37									#1
	The main question bugging me Suffering from ads?

I have read about how some are saying that they feel like their decisions are having seemingly no effect on their game or how the game gives you very little feedback about whatever decisions you make.

in other words, there is no "cause and effect" for the choices you make. same goes for diplomacy.


Is this all true?

Because if you have no idea what the effects of your decisions are, how can you devise any strategy?


thanks for letting me know, those of you who are playing it, this was bugging me.

	28-02-2003 21:39									#2
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I think there is cause and effect, it is just not immediately obvious until you get a better feel for the game. Or, that is my guess....I don't have a good enough feel to know yet. I think after quite a bit of trial and error (maybe lots of error), I will know what needs tweaking and what doesn't.

	28-02-2003 21:48									#3
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what trainwreck said, play the game and learn then you'll understand what's going on instead of being bewildered.

	28-02-2003 23:29									#4
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quote: what trainwreck said, play the game and learn then you'll understand what's going on instead of being bewildered.

Which is not how it should be. The cause and effect system should be obvious, otherwise its too much of a hassle to develop tactics for a game. And if a game is too much of a hassle to play, no one buys it, there's no sequel, and the developers go broke.

While I'm having some fun with moo3, its mostly because I'm concentrating on the few things which I can understand, rather than the great MANY things I don't have the slightest idea do. So I chat with other leaders, instead of worrying about my technologies. I target planets for colonization rather than defining much in the way of DEAs.

But I don't like it that way. I like it when a game lets my play, and lets me know what effects my decisions are having. In moo2, there were a lot of obvious tells as to what effects you were having. Build a factory, production goes up. Realllocate people to research, research goes up. I'm not saying that moo3 should have used that system, but it SHOULD have given more obvious feedback.


And there should really be a GOTO MAIN MAP button on the screen. I dont' want to have to hit the keyboard everytime I need to leave a menu.

	28-02-2003 23:53									#5
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quote: The cause and effect system should be obvious, otherwise its too much of a hassle to develop tactics for a game.

If the cause and effect is too 'linear', then there is usually only one good tactic - that, IMHO, is a bad thing. There are quite possibly mulitple strategies that might work, depending on the situation.

Now, I am not totally disagreeing with you....I am just hoping the complexity up front results in lots of possible options later on, even when I have figured everything out. One of the problems I have with Moo2 is that I have a strategy (for tech, expansion, shipbuilding, etc.) for each race that works wonderfully....but now the game is kind of repetitious after the first 'phase' of the game. I am hoping that that doesn't happen with '3'.

	01-03-2003 05:08									#6
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quote: Originally posted by TrainWreck20 I think there is cause and effect, it is just not immediately obvious until you get a better feel for the game. Or, that is my guess....I don't have a good enough feel to know yet. I think after quite a bit of trial and error (maybe lots of error), I will know what needs tweaking and what doesn't.

i aprreciate the comments from those of you playing.

but, is the effect of your actions so subtle that even after you get a hang for the game, all your actions will really not take effect until many many turns later?

is that why the effects seem so elusive?

or are the effects subtle for some other reason?

	01-03-2003 06:53									#7
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The issue is the interface is neither intuitive nor transparent. Complexity is good. Macromanagement is good. Fighting with your interface is no good.

I enjoy the game. I roleplay myself as an emperor with dull-witted and non-cooperative minions.

K

	01-03-2003 07:29									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Kc7mxo I target planets for colonization rather than defining much in the way of DEAs. But I don't like it that way. I like it when a game lets my play, and lets me know what effects my decisions are having. In moo2, there were a lot of obvious tells as to what effects you were having. Build a factory, production goes up. Realllocate people to research, research goes up. I'm not saying that moo3 should have used that system, but it SHOULD have given more obvious feedback.

Why don't you build your own DEAs? This is the people reallocation and factory building you are talking about. The screens are pretty obvious if you take manual control of this.

	01-03-2003 07:36									#9
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quote: Why don't you build your own DEAs? This is the people reallocation and factory building you are talking about. The screens are pretty obvious if you take manual control of this.

I'm not complaining about the specifics of being able to construct buildings.

I'm complaining because for a lot of aspects of the game, I don't feel like I'm able to make a difference. I don't know how to improve things.

Take for example, my current (still first) game. I have a massive oversupply of minerals. More than triple the demand. Now, I could go in and demolish a bunch of mining DEAs, and then have industries built, but I don't really have the information capacity to know how many to do it to, or where, or what production I'll be gaining. . . . .

I don't know how to make a real difference without spending a TERRIBLE amount of time fiddling with buildings and stuff. And thats NOT what macromanagement is supposed to be about, right?