01-03-2003 07:33									#1
	The Reserve Wormhole Effect Full PM-box? Change here!

In my last game, I had an empire which, due to the chained links holding it together across the galaxy, if I needed to shift my fleets from one end to the other, it would forever the MOO2 way. Instead of shifting them across the galaxy using their puny warp engines, I found another, faster way to make this trip. Oh, if the Voyager crew had this... lol

At some point in the middle of the game, you should get the technology to assemble Task Forces in systems other than your homeworld or the world of their manufacture. This structure (whose name I cannot remember) allows the system to pull ships from the Reserves and pop them into service there the next turn. Besides its usefulness for ship manufacturing, this also allows you to use a lovely trick to speed ships along.

The only thing you'll need is a system with the ability to pull from the Reserves. Now, your fleet can be disbanded, and it will be available in the Reserves after several rounds in the Penalty Box (under 10, most of the time). Once back into the Reserves, just reassemble the Task Forces at the star system, and it will appear there for you in the following round.

This trick will also work for ground troops, so you can recycle forces after a protracted ground assault. Cycle them into your Reserves with your transport vessels, and you have instant new troops to help your fight.

Let me know if that helps!

	01-03-2003 08:26									#2
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Yes, I noticed this too. Quite useful that.

I believe the structure is called the Mobilization Center or something close to that. And I think the tech has a similair name.

Now the question comes, is this an exploit? Kinda feels like it. Unless this is the designers intention. If the AI makes use of this feature then I would say it is okay, if not, the I would call it an exploit.

	01-03-2003 08:36									#3
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That sounds right... Mobilization Center...

It is probably an exploit, though its usefulness is apparant only late in the game on large maps. From what I can tell, the turn limit for the Penalty Box is supposed to simulate this redispersion, but it still allows for a really good abuse on the use for a mobile defense force, as well as the real fun of 'teleporting' fleets through enemy lines to a far flung system that's developed just enough to support a Center.

Perhaps they should call it the Wormhole Center.

	01-03-2003 12:21									#4
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In man history we have seem hight mobal armies mobalism
quickly for defense or attack. I donot think this than expoilt.

	01-03-2003 13:06									#5
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True, but the Reserve Wormhole surpasses the inherent speed limits built into the game. It's like having a racing game where, by parking your car in garage in Los Angeles for 8 hours, it can be transported instantly to New York. The effect is really that the presumed craft speed is MANY times greater than what the speed limits of the vessels are given to have.

	01-03-2003 15:02									#6
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Yes, this is a great little trick.

keep everything in reserves until you are a turn from being attacked, create an armada and defend your self.

saves a lot of AU (though at that point I've never had money problems on medium)

You might have to have control of the entire system, but I'm not sure on that, as they might have been recently colonized planets...

	01-03-2003 22:23									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

I've mobilized several task froces without being able to notice any drop in funding levels. Is there anywhere I can tell how much money is being spent on maintenance?

	01-03-2003 23:05									#8
	Put an end to popups!

Not really sure if this is an exploit or not.....they did add the 'waiting period' after you disband them. I guess if you are playing in a multiplayer (doubt the AI will do it), stage an attack somewhere to 'draw' the ships out of reserves...then attack elsewhere with a second fleet.

It would be nice if only a certain % could be mobilized at a certain location at a time....could represent how the actual fleet is de-mobilized at multiple locations, sort of, even if you don't actually have to indicate which ships are where (bleah!)

	01-03-2003 23:12									#9
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quote: Originally posted by TrainWreck20 Not really sure if this is an exploit or not.....they did add the 'waiting period' after you disband them. I guess if you are playing in a multiplayer (doubt the AI will do it), stage an attack somewhere to 'draw' the ships out of reserves...then attack elsewhere with a second fleet. It would be nice if only a certain % could be mobilized at a certain location at a time....could represent how the actual fleet is de-mobilized at multiple locations, sort of, even if you don't actually have to indicate which ships are where (bleah!)

the 10 day waiting period is....interesting. it is annoying that I attack with an armada or somehting, then it goes into drydock for 20 years or whatever, leaving the new planet unguarded, unless I bring in a separate fleet. There has to be somehting there, planing and staging wise that I'm missing.

	01-03-2003 23:24									#10
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Well, you can remove individual units from the fleet, so you don't need to break it down entirely to reposition your forces. In fact, it's only truly useful to keep ships in reserve either to have a mobile defense group of your big worlds, or to transport them farther than the distance covered in the time needed to wait in the penalty box.

The fleet maintenance is the same regardless of where your fleet is, reserves or not... as far as I can tell. I'll look again. Basically, the Reserves use is good later on to assemble forces from separated systems, and putting them right where you need them.

	02-03-2003 00:45									#11
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quote: Originally posted by canamrock Well, you can remove individual units from the fleet, so you don't need to break it down entirely to reposition your forces. In fact, it's only truly useful to keep ships in reserve either to have a mobile defense group of your big worlds, or to transport them farther than the distance covered in the time needed to wait in the penalty box. The fleet maintenance is the same regardless of where your fleet is, reserves or not... as far as I can tell. I'll look again. Basically, the Reserves use is good later on to assemble forces from separated systems, and putting them right where you need them.

From the readme:

Maintenance costs in MOO3 are computed as follows:

Buildings: 5% of initial PP cost, translated into AUs (so if the building cost 100 PPs, maintenance would be 5 AUs per turn).

FLUs: 5% per turn

Spies: 5% per turn

Leaders: 5% per turn
Ships (all types): .5% per turn if activated, .1% if in Reserves

Ground Forces:
Armies: .8% per turn, .4% if in Reserves
Divisions: .3% per turn, .15% if in Reserves
Corps: .2% per turn, .1% if in Reserves


Of course, the charges haven't really hurt me. I've had ship costs of maybe 500 while I had over 100k in gross per turn income.

	02-03-2003 09:35									#12
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Oh, man.... that is SO abuseable in the late game.

Usually, though, I'm making so much that all the Dreadnoughts I can muster barely dent my income... oh well. lol

If that's true, keeping more than a minimum fleet in open space is wasteful most of the time, especially if you shell out for some strategically placed Mobilization Centers.

It's giving me some ideas...

	02-03-2003 10:43									#13
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The turn is equall to beteew 1 and 2 earth year. In the Raise
and Fall of the Third Reich from Avalon Hill a board game they have than rule that all units can move at least 1 square
on the map no matter what the movermert cost might be, because the turn was 3 month in time.
If this lead to too much aduce they can alway mod it in a
patch.

	02-03-2003 13:56									#14
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Possibly, but I can give several uses for it that defy game logic and tactical fairness.

	03-03-2003 04:04									#15
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In the raise and fall of the third reich the board game to move into and out of mountain hex you needed I beleive 4 moverment point all infrantry unit have only 1 or 2 moverment point at most. Since very hex on the map is only 200 miles across even than slow moveing indrantry unit in real life can march 200 miles in three month time. There where some exception to the rule which I donot remember.

	06-03-2003 10:02									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I really didn't get Mobilization Centers until my third game. I noticed that the Plantery AI always built one first and it would say something like 30-40 turns. My second game I figured hey thats a waste of money so I just started by building Hawk Eyes and System Colonies. Well, the AI started making Eagle Attack units. Every thing is going fine I have 6 systems haven't met anyone. Well, the first person I met is the arch enemies of my race. Lucky me. Well, I tried to deploy a task group. (My first game I could deploy them from any planet because I let the AI do most of the work.) Well, the only planet I could build a task group from was my home world and it was like 20-30 turns to the planet in danger! That is when I learned about Mobilization Centers. Actually, my real problem was I thought hey all my systems are protected because they've been making Eagle Attacks, nope they all went into the reserves so I had to deal with piracy alot on those worlds. Grr. Piracy works rather well after you undstand it. You need defensive system ships those don't get posted to the reserves.

The theory is the reserves are just that Reseves. They take time to call up and can't be used right then, but for the most part they are setting in the background doing nothing.

	06-03-2003 15:01									#17
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This could have being in the manual in the first place.

	06-03-2003 19:19									#18
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I thought reserves were held in the system they were created in until they were deployed in a task force and used for defense. Are they held someplace else or did I just misunderstand?