02-03-2003 06:41									#1
	Military queues Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I am losing my patience with the AI wanting to create things I do not want.
It keeps queuing up Marines and I have not even made conact with anybody.
It keeps making troops until I made them Obsolete.
It makes scouts in short anything it can thing of and I do not want it to make any mil units. I set the spending to zero and clear the queue, but it goes on its marry way.
Anyway to put a stop to this nonsense?

	02-03-2003 06:47									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Click on the Economic A.I. check box on the planet screen. This will stop the A.I. from building those troop ships and marines, but I would warn you that it takes a while to build a sizable squadron of elite marines so you should start early.

	02-03-2003 07:33									#3
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I agree with Crostoneman. It's actually a very good idea to start building those infantry and marines early due to experience.

The problem I have that infuriates me with the planetary build AI for the military queues is that it has a fetish for building 20-30 hackers, command centers, and psy ops and NOT building marines once you get the tech for those ground support units

Having 30 support units in reserve doesn't do me any good if I don't have any actual TROOPS to put them with!

I'd be happy if it built some more marines and cut back a little on the magazine/hacker fetish...

	02-03-2003 07:52									#4
	Tired of ads?

it would be nice if we could have something similare to the planetary development plans ... for production queues ...

Like some place where we can decide to give priority to ship building or shock troops or support items and so on.

	02-03-2003 08:24									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I hear you, I just do not have enough playing time to have any idea how many troops should be built.
It likes to crank out those low level def ships as well.

	02-03-2003 09:56									#6
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I could be dead wrong, but i think the AI tries to make some kind of ratio of various troops. I let my AI go on it's marry way in a system i never really payed attention to and later when i went to make some ground invasion forces found that the system had a ton of marines, a handfull of hackers and Psyops a very few number of command thingys.. and a ton of troopships. It was really nice being able to say. "autobuild me an army.. ok 2, no 3 armies, and having them all packaged in ships in a single turn.

so maybe the AI is thinking about long term military needs rather than our short term?

	02-03-2003 12:15									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Like I said, I believe that can be valid, I just do not know how much is needed to do the job. I have a strong hunch it is a lot less than the AI will build, if left to its own devices.

	02-03-2003 19:26									#8
	Remove this text

@Arnelos:
I fully agree. I have at least 40 Support Units sitting arround

	03-03-2003 04:20									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think the in stick the side is that most of us veteran gamers are used to micromangement and this game a lot more about macro. I'd like a lot more control over ratio's, etc.

Hey, maybe I'm just going to destroy planets instead of conquer them. Why would I want troop ships then, eh? The model is a bit presumptious.

	03-03-2003 13:03									#10
	Remove this text

Well, when my size 12 industry mammoth (with more than 2500 industry points, and a shipyard capacity of Titan) is building Hackers, then I get annoyed. Especially as it builds about 7 Hackers all in one turn or something. I have to set it to build 10 x Biggest Ship. Over and over. Its a pain.

But this will surely be one of the priority things for the first patch, right ? I'd like to set each planet a build priority - Big ships, small ships, troops, support, defence(Sys Ships, Orbitals, Planetary). Just click on the icon(s) you'd like.

-Jam

	03-03-2003 19:34									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I am starting to get over the fact that the various planets produce units I do not need. I do a liltte bit of controlling by 'obsoleting' and 'unobsoleting' (new word?) various units. Now, I have not played on very big maps, but this works well for the smaller ones. I tend to create a couple of high-capacity production worlds and micor-manage these, and let the others go about their business. Since I have usually geared them to mining or research, they don't make a whole lot of anything anyway. They slowly crank out a few marines and other troops. Every 10 or 20 turns, I go through and reset a couple to make some special order, so to speak.

I have noticed that they do make a heck of a lot support troops, although it has not gotten to the point where I have run out of marines, so far.

	03-03-2003 23:27									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

What would be nice is a TRADE item like in Moo2.
Queue it up and nothing gets built. Call it anythin, but I would like to have a run in place item to prevent any building until I want it. This would allow me to not have to go delete all the queue up crap.

	04-03-2003 01:03									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

vmxa1 that's a great idea, like what they did in Civ and MOOII, where you build nothing...and all the production is devoted to monetary gain. We would all building planets and cities in these games for the purpose of making them money-gainers only.

	04-03-2003 03:30									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Just set the military budget slider to 0% and turn off the Planet A.I. That's what passes for trade item in this game.

	04-03-2003 04:49									#15
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Crostoneman Just set the military budget slider to 0% and turn off the Planet A.I. That's what passes for trade item in this game.

But then you run into the problem of your planetary economy going to pot since the viceroy is no longer managing it. What I would like to see is separate automation tasks for economic and building activities.

	04-03-2003 05:18									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes that can be done, but as was mentioned, I do not want to do everything, only stop some of the madness.

	04-03-2003 12:57									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Would be cool if there was a whole other screen dedicated to military building and planet military queues. A screen where you could set military build polices and quickly change and queue up stuff in all of your planets without having to click click click using the planets screen. Would be nice also if the actual military queue was ordered a bit nicer. I make a lot of designs for different ship types at least around 24 or so and it would be nice if ships were grouped in sub-tabs by size at least. The way it is now all ship sizes are just thrown all over the place.

	04-03-2003 13:24									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well, its possible to edit the AI's build priorities both for ground troops and ships. Its a bit complicated though. I'm sure this is one of the things in the coming patch.

-Jam

	04-03-2003 18:07									#19
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The only thing i want right now is a way to stop the AI to build anything military. I have a lot of research and mining planets that keep investing in a 50 turns Titan. I want that money and pp in the infrastructure and research expenses, not in a big ship, that will be useless by the time that it is completed.

	04-03-2003 19:19									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You can make some ships designs, queue them to be built where you want, and then make them obsolete - as you do with all of your ship designs. For the ground combat units I haven't found any cure, though ....

You can try to specialize your worlds, so u have only a few worlds with very high industry, and then micromanage them. Sort the planets by industry so these will pop out at the top of the planet list ....

	04-03-2003 23:00									#21
	Ratios Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

MilitaryAI.txt has the ratios for both ground combat troops and spaceships. Early on in the game, those ground ratios are skewed towards building support units, as the high ratio value units aren't available yet, and each support unit is given a ratio of 2 (2+2+2 is over half the total ratio at the beginning of the game.)

Troop ships, too, are up there, with a ratio of 4. All of this can be edited very easily, though I recommend just taking a complete and tested miltaryAI.txt file that also makes the AI more aggressive.

There's one here:
Just make a "Spreadsheets" directory in the folder that has the file spreadsheets.mob (under gamedatafiles/common or something like that) and put the militaryAI.txt file in there. Or just edit the relevant lines yourself, howto is over at ww.ina-community.com under Fan Modifications.

http://home.attbi.com/~spam-target/

	06-03-2003 17:23									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think it sucks that you have to mod a game like that for it to be playable.

offtopic, but the sad truth

	07-03-2003 01:40									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Prothero - By now you may have heard the answer (I'm not a very good lurker,) but your 50 turn titan problem is atypical.

Another reason for many troop ships has been found to be that people don't have any other military ships of a small enough cost for the AI to consider building. If your AIs are building 50 turn titans, you must have one of the war settings turned up high enough that they feel it's important to do that. Typically the AI always goes for 'reasonable' ships even on the War settings. 50 turn titans are not reasonable. A full description of this can be found on the guides at http://www.nebulanet.net:8080/moo3/...explanation.htm

And other guides that really do help: http://www.nebulanet.net:8080/moo3/

Still, building queues are one of the few things I muck around with personally on a regular basis - it'd be nice if there was a quick way to handle that.