02-03-2003 23:51									#31
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Listen. I'm getting annoyed as well. Maybe a song would help.

Iran was Persia
Now it's Iran, not Persia
Been a long time go, been Persia
Now it's Iranian delight on a moonlight night

Every gal in Persia
Lives in Iran, not Persia
So if you've got date in Persia
At some point her father will come and chop both of your necks off for having his honor sullied... um.

Even old New York
Was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it, I can't say
Maybe they just liked it better that way

So take me back to Persia
No, you can't go back to Persia
Been a long time go, been Persia
Why did the Persia get the works?
That's no-one's issue but the Farsi... erks?

Persia (Perr-si-aaa....)

	02-03-2003 23:54									#32
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Azazel : right. France is actuallt composed of many different ethnic and cultural groups (Corsicans, Bretons, Alsacians, Basques, Normans, Dutch, Catalans etc.) who have been forcefully unified under the French crown, and whose cultures have been standardized to Parisian standards (hardly Frank anymore) since 1880.
French ethnicity is about as varied as Spain's. Do you imagine how people would react if Spain was called "Castille" ?

	03-03-2003 00:07									#33
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yep, "Spain" is geographic, in Castillian ( what we call spanish) it is "España", from the latin "Hispania", and that, in turn, should come from a semitic source, though I am not sure which.

"Germany" or "Allemagne" in French, are both indicators of being a certain large ethnic group , the Germans, or a certain tribe, the "Allemagni". "Deutchland" is a total mistery to me, I have no idea where they come from.

But Spiffor, it is actually a good thing. All Nations come from various sources, simply there are parts that are more dominant, or contribute different things to the National Identity.

	03-03-2003 00:48									#34
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Germany is a mystery ro me too.
Germans were the tribes who opposed Ceasar ("Germanen" in German).
The French word "Allemagne" comes from the "Alamans" (Latin Alemanni), a group of various Germanic tribes which were a threat to northern Italy between 3rd and 6th centuries.
The German word "Deutschland" si supposed to come from the Teutons, more specifically the teutonic knights which had a great role in christianising the territory, and giving its identity.
Russians call Germany "Nemetz" (sp ?). I have no idea where such a name comes from.

Incidentally, the German ethnicity is about homogenous, if you con't count recent immigration

	03-03-2003 00:53									#35
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Finns call Germany "Saksa", BTW.

	03-03-2003 00:56									#36
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IIRC, there is only one letter of difference between France and Iraq in Finnish, sin't it ?

	03-03-2003 01:20									#37
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quote: Finns call Germany "Saksa", BTW.

makes sense. The Saxons were a german tribe. Saxonia is a province of Germany.

An interesting fact. Do you know what's the name of France and Spain in hebrew?
"Tsorfat", and "Sfarad", respectively. "Tsorfat" to me appears to have a connection to jewlery, while "Sfarad" is "Hispania", while being changed a lot. Another interesting thing is that once, Germany was called "Ashkenaz", the various German dutchies, of both Germany and Austria, to be precise.

So how is "Deutchland" The teutonic Knights?

Now another question to you. Why the **** is "Egypt" called "Egypt"? It's "Misr" in arabic and "Mitsraim" in Hebrew ( A very interesting word, meaning "The two Egypts", probably meaning the Lower and The Upper Kingdoms, that I think shows how ancient is our language. )

	03-03-2003 01:25									#38
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Deutschland
Teuton.
Similar roots IMHO. The word must have evolved with the language in the many centuries since the Teutons.

	03-03-2003 01:36									#39
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quote: IIRC, there is only one letter of difference between France and Iraq in Finnish, sin't it ?

France = Ranska
Iraq = Irak

OTOH, there's only one letter difference between Denmark and France. I don't know what that means, though.

Other unusual Finnish names:

Sweden = Ruotsi
Estonia = Viro
Russia = Venäjä
Austria = Itävalta

	03-03-2003 01:40									#40
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Wow, I thought Israeli names were weird.

Spiffor: thanks!

So, where "Egypt" comes from?

	04-03-2003 02:13									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune I believe they are doing better with Fundamentalism right now; large numbers of Fanatics and other free troops are more important than normal research, if you possibly have to kill an American invasion in the near future.

In civ2 terms: we wont attack the country. We'll attack the far weaker despotism next to it, then use as a base for spies to "buy" Iran. Unlike in CIv2 , this fundie regime has lots of unhappies, buying it may turn out to be cheap.

	04-03-2003 02:18									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Wow, I thought Israeli names were weird. Spiffor: thanks! So, where "Egypt" comes from?

its from Greek, but i dont know what it means.

Ive often seen mitsraim explained as also meaning "narrows" or "straits" a natural name for the Nile Valley, but also capable of being punned with "troubles", making possible more contemporarily relevant interpretations of the Pesach Seder.

	04-03-2003 02:24									#43
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Ramo: Again, check a listing of the various ethnicites there.

Anyway, the country was called something else before "Persia". The country used to be called the Median Empire, named after the Medes . Persia didn't come about as a name until the Cyrus the Great overthrew the Median Empire, and henceforth it became the Persian Empire.

	04-03-2003 02:33									#44
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The Median empire was in a different location, the southeastern turkey, Kurdistan. I think.

	04-03-2003 03:12									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Germany is a mystery ro me too. Germans were the tribes who opposed Ceasar ("Germanen" in German). The French word "Allemagne" comes from the "Alamans" (Latin Alemanni), a group of various Germanic tribes which were a threat to northern Italy between 3rd and 6th centuries. The German word "Deutschland" si supposed to come from the Teutons, more specifically the teutonic knights which had a great role in christianising the territory, and giving its identity. Russians call Germany "Nemetz" (sp ?). I have no idea where such a name comes from.

Deutsch means something like "of the (common) people", and we (Dutch + Flemish) call Germany "Duitsland". We have a similar word for ourselves (the hypothetical union of the Netherlands and Flanders) , "Dietsland" but we practically stopped using the word "Diets" after WW2. Only the English still call our language "Diets" (Dutch, obviuosly)

And "Dietsland, houzee!" were the last words spoken by Dr August Borms before he was executed for collaboration with the Germans in 1946.

	04-03-2003 03:42									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel The Median empire was in a different location, the southeastern turkey, Kurdistan. I think.

	04-03-2003 05:47									#47
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Hmmm. That was an old SJ Perelman joke, wasn't it? "One man's Mede is another man's Persian."

Or maybe it was Robert Benchley.

	04-03-2003 06:01									#48
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Impressive, the Babylonian empire on this map exactly looks like the Babylonian empire in my latest game of Civ3, before I handed it to my regional vassal.

	04-03-2003 07:35									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X And would Turkey be Anatolia or Asia Minor. I like Asia Minor. It's demeaning. Puts a barbaric country in its place.

"You've been listening to Tchaikovskey's "The Storm" in asia minor."

Radio Ankara