02-03-2003 09:07									#1
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Ok, I have to ask, why does a colony ship have a retro engine and a thruster?
I asked as I wanted to upgrade the colony ship and dropped the retro for a sublight. I could not fit the improved thruster in. I wonder why do I need a system drive and a star lane drive? Do I need both?

	02-03-2003 09:35									#2
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as far as I understand, all ships need a system drive, for any kind of movement. this sucks since the system drive sure does take a lot of space. even orbitals need a system drive.

but think of it this way: you send your colony ship to some remote system, and another race ship arrives at the same time. they intercept and attack you. without that system drive (provided the game actually lets you get out of a system without one!), I kind of wonder just how fast you'll be able to move the colony ship

i'm not 100% sure though since I never tried to fit a ship without a system drive so if anyone knows better please clarify

	02-03-2003 09:43									#3
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Well for a colony ship you'll want it to be a "starship" so that it can get to other stars. "system ships" have no warp engines, and are stuck in the system you build them in. (good for system colonies, and defensive ships)

For a starship, i think your required to have both a warp engine, and a type of thruster. But since thrusters only come into play during combat (AFAIK) there's no real reason to put anything other than your smallest/cheapest thruster on a colony ship..

	02-03-2003 09:51									#4
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I did this:
Newest Warp Drive
Fitted retro engine and cut the speed to 500.
Saves usually enoiugh space for the new warpD.
Regarding no System Drive: Invalid Design

	02-03-2003 09:54									#5
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I think you're right about cutting down the system drive's speed, it cuts down on the space and price.

I've noticed it happen, but I'm not sure how exactly it's calculated.

	02-03-2003 12:17									#6
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Makes sense and that is what I had done, so I guess I stumbled intot the truth, thanks.

	02-03-2003 12:18									#7
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BTW way AFAIK the AI will not build any system colony ships, I have not seen it, even when colonizing planets in the home system.

	02-03-2003 13:40									#8
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Drop the system engines as low as possible. You can usually just cut them to Thrusters at 50-200 units of movement, and save the extra room for a beefier warp drive. That's what'll really matter for a Colony Ship. For most other ships, it's usually not worth it to cut back on the system movement, though.

	02-03-2003 16:08									#9
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If you noticed the original ship designs, they had the speed at 150

	02-03-2003 19:39									#10
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But newer Warp drives get smaller not bigger? :=)
im working on a colony ship with 4 colony pods..
4000 starting pop thats like a good Start! :=)
dont want to get the design to big.. Light Cruiser perhaps?

	02-03-2003 21:30									#11
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quote: BTW way AFAIK the AI will not build any system colony ships, I have not seen it, even when colonizing planets in the home system.

I've had the AI build system colonies on me a few times so it does happen, maybe not as much as you would like though. I generally tell my planets what to build directly anyway.

	02-03-2003 23:52									#12
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 BTW way AFAIK the AI will not build any system colony ships, I have not seen it, even when colonizing planets in the home system.

is it possible to tell the difference between a system colony ship and regular one?

if you'd see an AI task force on the map named 'Colo Detachment'.. then that would mean its a regular colony ship. you can't really see the AI's system ships, right? unless theres some info screen I've been missing?

I remember reading in the manual, a gamers tip I believe, about knowing what kind of ships the AI has so you can design your own ships to counter them. maybe that just means reading the labels of the AI's task forces, but if theres some info screen somewhere that i've been missing where is it!

	03-03-2003 00:06									#13
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quote: Originally posted by smellymummy is it possible to tell the difference between a system colony ship and regular one?

A System Colony Ship is diplayed with your other System Forces.
It has the same tactical Sign as all other System Ships (for Example your Hawk Defence Corvettes).
So I think also AI-System Colony ships would share this tactical sign with their other Systemforces instead of having the tactical sign of a Colonization Force.

	03-03-2003 01:04									#14
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I have not seen it queued up to be built. Once it was built, I do not know if it would be distinguishable from the other.

	03-03-2003 01:50									#15
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Thats true.

The AI viceroy also didn“t build them for me.
I had to manually put them into the Building queue to have them built.

But when I built some of them, they appeard with the other System Ships and could only be distinguished from the other System Ships by clicking on them and reading the Ship Types.

	03-03-2003 02:11									#16
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That is what I would expect. I am still fiddling, but I am strongly leaning towards doing all colony ships and colonization myself. I am sick of seeing a planet had a few hundred pop and not grow to get the first full point.
Why does the AI not drop enough people to get to full point or even better?

	03-03-2003 03:08									#17
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Proteus_MST:

what I meant was about being able to tell the difference not for our own (ie, you/me, the player) system ships, but those of the AI. maybe i missed something, but I can't see what ships they got just by clicking on the AI system. all it says is how many ships that system has. which leads me back to what i originally wondering, if there is some info somewhere in the game that lets us know the status of the AI fleets (compositions, weapons, etc). I don't think there is, but from the gamers tip in the manual (p 115), it mentions to analyze your enemy. not sure how we can do that, short of knowing what the AI builds.

and then the only way for us to know what the AI build is by reading the label of the task force and remembering the image model of each ship class for each race. but this only reveals ship class, and ship mission.

vmxa1:

the AI actually does drop enough colonist to reach 1 pop point, or so it seems. Build up 4 colonization ships into your reserve, then set a Red 2 planet to be colonized. the next turn the AI will probably be sending all 4 (or maybe 3) colony ships to settle that planet, since a red 2 planet needs more than one colony ship before it reaches the 1 pop point mark.

also, I've noticed the viceroy AI is somehow managing to get population on planets on its own. keep an eye out on some nice planets in your systems, or near them, and you'll see out of nowhere that they start gaining your own race population! I don't know why it does this, but it does. the AI will just keep sending population there, much like if you manually sent an outpost to it, and then set the planet to receive migration ... but without the apparent outpost ship being built or setting migration to on.

the best example of this I can remember is when I took over the guardian systems (the ones with the 'paradise' planet). other times it would happen out of nowhere, but always would be on good planets (green, sweet spot)

anyway, I still take care of colonization manually, feels better

	03-03-2003 05:02									#18
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Yes I know it will "migrate workers, but it has does so too slowly and I have lost control of planets. It also was not creating enough food to feed all the people.
I have since corrected these problems, now that I know how and that I need to do it.

	04-03-2003 05:40									#19
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BTW:

All ships need some kind of system drive, even orbitals (and non-combatants...like colony ships). Here's why: don't think of system drives as simply propulsion systems...it's also the power plant for the ship. Just like in real naval vessels...the ships engines (be their nuclear or diesel) provide not only power for the turbines, but also electricity to power the rest of the ship's systems.

The manual told me this.

It also told me (on page 25 in the middle of the page, regarding the game's built in "reminder timer") "GAMER TIP: Always set your priorities. Live human encounters are beneficial to your well-being and add balance to your world."

Ooooooooooooooh! *THAT'S* what I'm doing wrong! Thanks for that!

-Yoink

	04-03-2003 08:00									#20
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lol If you want to get those Yellow and Red worlds colonized faster and cheaper, make one ship with a larger hull size and multiple colony pods. Also, this ensures that Green worlds will have a larger starting population. I hope that helps.

	04-03-2003 17:40									#21
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Colony I -Destroyer with Sysspeed of 15 (Improved thrusters) 1ColonyPod
Colony II Cruiser Design ~Turn 100 most of your WOrld should be able to build those pal's (obsolete destroyer design)
2Colony Pods sysspeed 25
In combat those are sitting ducks except you can retreat fast enough... but as I never saw a lone colony ship survive anyways good drive or not..

	04-03-2003 21:24									#22
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Interesting thought, putting more colony pods and starting out with massive colonies.