03-03-2003 14:48									#1
	Can someone tell me what Nuremberg was for? Put an end to popups!

Can anyone out there explain to me why the US-led Military Tribunal accused and convicted/sentenced the elite of the 3rd Reich for planning and preparing a war of aggression, for the realization of a war of aggression and Crimes against Humanity and now the US is doing exact the same things.

To me this is completely confuse and I cannot understand this. An attack on Iraq is not to justify. Why the US Government is not accused in The Hague for these reasons?

	03-03-2003 15:04									#2
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Jon Miller

	03-03-2003 15:21									#3
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?

	03-03-2003 15:22									#4
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As you have managed to post enought o get to Prince I would have thought you would unedrstand what a troll rating was.

I thought it was too generous BTW

	03-03-2003 15:33									#5
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Gym Pants?

	03-03-2003 15:39									#6
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Personally, he has a point. The only crime Hussein is guilty of is he is no longer a US lackey.

	03-03-2003 16:00									#7
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Well he is guilty of many others, and was never a US lackey, but I would agree that the US is going after him only because he no longer supports them in anyway, and supporting him ain't in there interest (unlike in Saudi Arabia, a much worse country). Still, it's not as if it's a bad thing that they're taking out Saddam considering all the killing he's done.

	03-03-2003 17:01									#8
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Gym Pants?

hehe, no I think he derrived his handle from the german word schimpanse (the dictonary says chimpanzee).

@topic:
there wouldnīt have been a military tribunal in Nürnberg if Germany would have won the war. they are the right of the victor.
furthermore, the war hasnīt begun yet and currently the US is only threatening with war (so does Northkorea). current military actions in the flight control zone are legalized by the UN so they also donīt count.

you just need to give Bush a little bit more time.

	03-03-2003 18:49									#9
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quote: you just need to give Bush a little bit more time.

Time to do what? Even more wars to commence you can never justify?

I am NOT a revisionist. I support the Tribunal in Nuremberg but why on earth Bush can do anything he want to? His pre-emptive strike strategy will make the world not safer because some other minor nations will be encouraged to try to solve their problems with weapons.

	03-03-2003 19:23									#10
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sorry jim, but as much as I decline preemptive strikes I also decline preemtive judgements. so far they is no pre-emptive strike yet.

	03-03-2003 20:13									#11
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nuremberg was a WAR CRIMES tribunal WAR is not a WAR CRIME. subtle difference.

	03-03-2003 20:13									#12
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and besides. we'd have to lose to be tried. thats how it works

	03-03-2003 20:34									#13
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The US does commit war crimes. The difference is intent. The Nazis intended to exterminate the Jews and others. The US just kills civilians because they are inept, or in acts of retribution. A subtle difference, and I am a little disturbed at how small the difference is. But the Nuremburg trials were right on. And Bush shouldn't be put on trial just for this Iraqi war. Having said that, Milosevic shouldn't be on trial either. It's amazing that as long as he's been in custody, there hasn't been any credible evidence presented against him. If you are going to put war crimes on a scale of gray, black, and white. Clinton's foreign policy atrocities would be in between Milosevic and Nazi Germany. Reagan would be in between Clinton and the Nazis. But I don't think we should put Reagan or Clinton on trial... despite Reagan giving Saddam the vast majority of his WoMD's.

	03-03-2003 20:37									#14
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and to throw a little pre-emptive water on the soon to come fire, the united states doesn't kill civilians on purpose. in the case of the gulf war, saddam built missle silos near residential neighborhoods. not our fault all the bombs didn't land exactly where we wanted them too.

i think it's amazing how just because information is so widely available now that people are so quick to condemn nations / people. this sh*t has been going on for millenia, chances are all your people did SOMETHING horrific in their lifespan.

now it's our time in the sun

	03-03-2003 20:41									#15
	Re: Can someone tell me what Nuremberg was for? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by jim panse Can anyone out there explain to me why the US-led Military Tribunal accused and convicted/sentenced the elite of the 3rd Reich for planning and preparing a war of aggression,

Which ones?

	03-03-2003 20:46									#16
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Pick a card, any card....

	03-03-2003 20:48									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Personally, he has a point. The only crime Hussein is guilty of is he is no longer a US lackey.

Well, if you don't count violating 17 UN resolutions, gassing 30,000 people, the outright disapearence of 500,000 others (according to US lackeys Amesty International), state authorized torture, state authorized rape, attempting to aquire NBC weapons...
Yes, he's as innocent as the day is long, why can't Bush see it?

	03-03-2003 20:48									#18
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I pick that one!

	03-03-2003 21:02									#19
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I pick that one!

dealer busts. looks like you win again.

	03-03-2003 21:16									#21
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX and besides. we'd have to lose to be tried. thats how it works

Thats good enough reason for me.

	03-03-2003 21:35									#22
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX and besides. we'd have to lose to be tried. thats how it works

I'm not sure that is true. Presumably if the US attacked without UN sanction and committed govt sanctioned war crimes while attacking Iraq, Bush could be accused of war crimes and tried in absentia (if he didn't give himself up).

I agree that it is a bit silly to claim that Bush has committed war crimes, but that doesn't make what he is doing right. And I think the way the Afghani captives are being treated doesn't say much for the US sense of 'morality'.

In fact, if I were an arab, I would feel more inclined to fight against the US now than I would have a year ago.

	03-03-2003 21:41									#23
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And I'm sure that Americans are more inclined to fight then they would have before 9/11

	03-03-2003 21:42									#24
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Great, each side more riled up. Exactly what the terrorists wanted in the first place.

	03-03-2003 21:44									#25
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we're not systematically killing the captured afgahnis.

in fact, they thought enough about it to not put them on US soil, because they knew sh*t would go down.

i dont know how well you want the prisioners to be treated, but you front the money for it and we'll talk.

	04-03-2003 00:26									#26
	Tired of ads?

Please donīt misunderstand me but I see no justification for this war.

quote: Well, if you don't count violating 17 UN resolutions

Well, how many have been violated by other nations? (I exactly know - as all of you - that you expect me to blame Israel. I wonīt do this.

No, counting the failures of each other leads nowhere. Look into the Bible. No, I just cannot understand your American way of Morality. To me it seems ... I donīt know, ridiculous is not the right word .... ... let me think, strange. I guess this is the word. Strange.
Well, I think strange fits the term.

quote: nuremberg was a WAR CRIMES tribunal WAR is not a WAR CRIME. subtle difference.

This I know. I have never stated that War itself is a crime. The thing to mention about this is the way to discuss about it. Some US hubris is there. You just stated it. I donīt think I shall add something more than your statement .....

quote: and besides. we'd have to lose to be tried. thats how it works

This Pseudo-Morality I do not want and need. The last two I could read in various US-American Newspapers and Magazines that Sec. of Defense Rumsfeld is not really happy of Germany because Schröder doesnīt want to go to war.
Only - I guess - 3 to 4 days ago I also read that America is proud about its "Reeducation" of Germany to a peaceful and peaceloving nation after WW2. Personally I wish the US the same education.

I never understood the meaning of the following proverb: "If you have drawn your sword, you must use it."
Now I do. As a Post-WW2 European I ever thought of putting the sword besides whenever possible. Now I understand the proverb. I wish the best to the US in its war against Iraq. I wonīt shed a single tear after Saddam but the US also knows that this is a war Bush can never justify (by now).

I am against this war. I would wish all the people that the Earth will be more safe after Gulf War III. And this is some "...re-run of a bad movie Í am sick and tired to watch again". I doubt that our planet will be more peaceful and safer after. Have Fun, all you warmongering and dumb people. A war cannot be fought without losses/casualties. I think it wonīt matter how many tons TNT the US will drop on Iraq, but I think it will matter how many US Soldiers will lose their lives in this war. Good Luck for your Re-election, Mr Bush. I hope that America is not that stupid to elect you again (maybe this time with a majority of the votes .....)

	04-03-2003 00:33									#27
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quote: Can anyone out there explain to me why the US-led Military Tribunal accused and convicted/sentenced the elite of the 3rd Reich for planning and preparing a war of aggression, for the realization of a war of aggression and Crimes against Humanity and now the US is doing exact the same things.

last time i checked, america hadn't gassed and cremated people wholesale.

quote: To me this is completely confuse and I cannot understand this. An attack on Iraq is not to justify. Why the US Government is not accused in The Hague for these reasons?

because the outcome of the war isn't known yet, and the winner is the one who gets to pick who gets put on trial.

	04-03-2003 02:46									#28
	Re: Can someone tell me what Nuremberg was for? Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by jim panse US-led Military Tribunal

US-led? Well, only if you ignore those other three countries...

	04-03-2003 02:47									#29
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quote: Originally posted by jim panse Well, how many have been violated by other nations?

Which of those resolutions were passed under Chapter 7 of the UN charter?

	04-03-2003 04:23									#30
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quote: Originally posted by jim panse Well, how many have been violated by other nations? (I exactly know - as all of you - that you expect me to blame Israel. I wonīt do this. No, counting the failures of each other leads nowhere. Look into the Bible. No, I just cannot understand your American way of Morality. To me it seems ... I donīt know, ridiculous is not the right word .... ... let me think, strange. I guess this is the word. Strange. Well, I think strange fits the term.

What drugs are you on?

Seriously, invoking "war crimes" because you don't agree with another Gulf War just makes you look silly. Worse, you trivialise the seriousness of the term 'war crimes'. Comparing a terribly one-sided war that hasn't happened yet with victors of war impaling/torturing/murdering/eviscerating/gasing innocent civilians makes you look like a complete tool. Get some therapy