03-03-2003 15:00									#1
	MAgnate Civs. Assimilation, conquest or ... ? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

How does one obtain control over planets with Magnate Civs ? (if at all...)

Colony ships seem to disappear (but maybe i should send enough to make the "original" race a minority ? in which case how many may that be ?)

If such worlds should be taken by force, how do i go about it ? I can't seem to get my ground troops to attack...

..or do you just grow to be a power in the vicinity (sector/system) and let them join in their own good time (sort of like Culture in Civ3) ?

Help appreciated.

	03-03-2003 15:37									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Planets with Magnate Civs usualy are Yellow or Red for your Race.

If Landing with a Colony Ship on Yellow or Red Planets your have 0,5 of a Colony (Yellow) or 0,25 of a Colony (Red)
It means you either have to use more Colony Ships to colonise the Planet (2 for Yellow, 4 for Red) to establish a Colony at once, or you have to wait a long time til your Outpost grows into a full Colony.

After you have successfully established a Colony there, the Magnate Civ becomes Part of your Empire and the other Race (for example Darlok) independently establishes Colonies of their own which will also belong to you.

	03-03-2003 16:11									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Magnate civs are essential to a successful empire. You *want* them. All of them. Every magnate race has a sweet spot that will give you access to many more worlds than your original race can productively use.

Send an outpost to stake your claim to a magnate civ fast if they are likely to be snapped up by someone else. Then send colony ships or let the population grow slowly until it reaches 1,000.

	03-03-2003 18:14									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

In my opinion, send an outpost (minimum) or colony to (all) Magnet worlds. Then under the Planets tab set to Emigrate (if you look the world will be your color, but likely not a fully colony - the world is not capitalized). This will help them grow fast to a full colony status since emigration will be MUCH faster than natural growth of a tiny outpost world. Make sure you set Emigrate off when they get the magic "1" population so that the native population STAYS dominant.

My strategy (for what it’s worth)L: First build system ships for Green and maybe Yellow 1 worlds in your home system (if they're juicy). Then outposts for a bunch of magnet worlds, and maybe a colony for a great Green/Sweetspot. Early in the game I will build outposts for magnets before colony ships to make sure I get the magnet planets ASAP (a pop 6 or 7 world is better than a size one of my race; plus, they have vastly different environmental preferences and will naturally colonize worlds they like).

One nice note is that other races will emigrate to red or yellow if they like it better than your home race.

	03-03-2003 20:48									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold Magnate civs are essential to a successful empire. You *want* them. All of them. Every magnate race has a sweet spot that will give you access to many more worlds than your original race can productively use. Send an outpost to stake your claim to a magnate civ fast if they are likely to be snapped up by someone else. Then send colony ships or let the population grow slowly until it reaches 1,000.

I should add one thing.
Even if you already have settlers on the Planet with a magnate Civ, but haven´t a full grown Colony yet, it may happen that another Races also sends Settlers to this Planet.

In this case all Settlers of the great Civilizations are added to determine if the outpost grows into a Colony and the Colony will belong to the Race with the highest Number of Settlers on the Planet.
For Example you and the Nommo try to colonize the Planet. The Nommo have 0,4 Settlers on the Planet, you have 0,6 Settlers on the Planet. That means the Outpost will grow to a Colony within the next turn and the Colony will belong to you.

I have seen the AI using this tactic and I have used this tactic for myself.

It causes very interesting results.
As I´ve written before, the magnate Civ will settle on other Planets on their own.
The really interesting part is that, if you have settlers from another Race ón the Planet, they will also grow and establish Colonies on their own.

There was some case where I and the Nommo tried to establish a Colony on a World with the Darlok magnate Civ.
I won the race and the Colony was mne.
After several turns the Darloks established Colonies on other Gas Giants, as I had expected.
I was really surprised when after several more turns there developed also Nommo Colonies with the colors of my empire.

Oh and don´t worry. If you try to establish a Colony on a world with a magnate Civ where another Race already tries to do the same thing, it won´t be seen as Casus belli by the other race, even if you eventually have more Settlers on the planet and therefore get the Planet for your empire.

	04-03-2003 01:06									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I have sent colony ships to a planet with a Magnate civ and it finally said I had established a colony there.

But the planet still doesn't show up in my Planets screen list for me to set the immigration level. What now?

	04-03-2003 01:17									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well, as is all too common in this day, the manual is nearly worthless. Yes, it tells you what you're looking at but does NOT tell how to use it. Not to mention the lack of scripted tutorial missions.

	04-03-2003 01:24									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Xerxes2 Well, as is all too common in this day, the manual is nearly worthless. Yes, it tells you what you're looking at but does NOT tell how to use it. Not to mention the lack of scripted tutorial missions.

Worthless? Their completely different games! The manual doesn't cover the game on the cd and the game on the cd doesn't resemble the game in the manual.

Add to this the fact that the only entries in the encyclopedia are:

MOO3 = An abreviation for Master of Orion 3

and

Box = the cardboard shape the game disks came in

Heck, I knew those things already, I would hope there would be some entry in the encyclopedia that explained something somebody might have a question about.

	04-03-2003 01:31									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

Xerxes - To find any planet that have less than 1000 people (a full colony) go to Planets, then select Uncontrolled and all environment types. You will see planets on the left that have a white ring around them, indicating they have either a magnate or other race's partial colony. You will not know who's partial colony unless you check its color on the galactic map (not the location map in the Planets tab). I think if its your partial colony it will tell you the race that is colonizing it in the second from left column. If there are non-Magnet races on the planet you can Set Migration by going to the Orders tab at the bottom, and Set Migration (otherwise it will be ghosted). A small blue dot will appear on the planet when you have Set Migration, and also when you click on the Planet in the Galaxy Map. Now, your people will go happily go there. Well, almost. I've notice migration to Red and Yellow worlds is rather slow (50/turn), whereas better Green worlds colonize fast (250/turn). Again, this is race specific based on environmental preference.

Proteus - excellent point. Why not attempt to steal other races partially colonized planets! I tried this by accident, then stopped when I realized it was a nasty Sacra (who were at war with me). A few turns later the planet popped to a colony and now I wish I'd had a chance to get it first. Your trick is also nifty for those free colonizations of all others. Multiplayer's beware!! Hehehe.

	04-03-2003 02:10									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I have sent colony ships to a planet with a Magnate civ and it finally said I had established a colony there. But the planet still doesn't show up in my Planets screen list for me to set the immigration level. What now?

On the far right is the filter option 'Similar Type' or something which is the default. This means you will only see sweet spot and green planets. You need to deselect this to see the red planets with Magnate races that you have colonized. It took me a while to notice this.

	04-03-2003 05:02									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Ok, in reading some of these post, I understand that Magante Civs are good to have in your corner...

Questions tho -1. It is mentioned that they will move to planets of their liking, and will be under your controll. Correct? 2. Do you have to allow the AI to colonize planets for you, for these Magnates to move off world? I have the colonize setting to default where I define what plants get the colony ships. When you build a colony ship from a Magnate dominant plante, what race are they and how can you tell by looking at the ship?

Thanks in advance for the assist here!

	04-03-2003 14:44									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Shnozwangler Ok, in reading some of these post, I understand that Magante Civs are good to have in your corner... Questions tho -1. It is mentioned that they will move to planets of their liking, and will be under your controll. Correct? 2. Do you have to allow the AI to colonize planets for you, for these Magnates to move off world? I have the colonize setting to default where I define what plants get the colony ships. When you build a colony ship from a Magnate dominant plante, what race are they and how can you tell by looking at the ship? Thanks in advance for the assist here!

1. Yep, Magnate Civs (and obviously also conquered Races) set up Colonies on their own. Those new Colonies belong to your Empire and can be controlled by you just as any other Colony.

2. You don´t have The AI-Colonization Setting turned on. I Have it turned off and the Magnate Civs still set up Colonies on their own.

I think you can´t manually colonize Worlds with Magnate Civs or conquered Races though. As the Colonization Ship goes directly into your Ship Reserves, I assume that it will be used by your own race.
But I haven´t tried it out yet.

	04-03-2003 16:03									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

As far as I can tell, the colony ship contains colonists from the majority race of the planet it is built on.

This is quite confusing though, because you can't see what race a colony ship contains once it is built. You also can't view the a planet's habitability from the perspective of a magnate civ, so you don't know which planets will be green for them.

	04-03-2003 18:36									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I found and assimilated the Alluviehs (sp?) and they grow so slow I'll never have the chance to see them colonize. Of course they were growing faster before my empire began to starve because the stupid AI wasn't building bioharvest deas.

	04-03-2003 21:00									#15
	Remove this text

I just found out that magnate civs can be annoying.

I normally colonized a planet that was green for my Psilons. Then these silly protoplasmatic guys (Ajdavar or whatever) migrate there in masses until they overtake my Psilons in population, and now the planet is classified yellow because the protoplasmas form the majority.

Sigh... in moments like these I want to (dare I say the word) MICROMANAGE my damn population.

	06-03-2003 07:51									#16
	Put an end to popups!

Just send an Ithkul colony in to say hi, then assimilate. What magnate civilizations? FOOD!!!

	06-03-2003 17:55									#17
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by SvZurich Just send an Ithkul colony in to say hi, then assimilate. What magnate civilizations? FOOD!!!

Jup,
My brave Troops have just conquered an Ithkul planet.
In the Specials List it says "Magnate Civ".
As I look into the Population Statistic it says "100% Ithkul".

They must have gotten really hungry

	07-03-2003 02:13									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

I tested now.
1) Colony ship contains colonists from the major race of the planet. Colony ship goes to reserves as usual.
2) Teraforming teraforms to perferences of major race of the planet also.

	07-03-2003 16:07									#19
	Got spare money?

My strategy in assimilating magnates is to send in a colony ship (outpost would work as well, but my viceroys don't build those ships), select the planet tab, filter for "within borders", and set migration to the planet. Within a few turns the planet and the magnate civ will be mine. To find the planet it really helps sorting after name so you'll know where to look.

Cheers...

	07-03-2003 16:20									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Ellestar I tested now. 1) Colony ship contains colonists from the major race of the planet. Colony ship goes to reserves as usual. 2) Teraforming teraforms to perferences of major race of the planet also.

Yes, this is indeed how it works.

I've gotten into the habit of creating multiple colony ship designs, one for each race (EvonCol, DarlokCol, MeklarCol, Eler-Col, Silic-Col).

I then have to watch the AI's for each planet to make sure they're building the CORRECT colony ship for their planet (which is a royal pain in the rear), but at least I can ensure that when my Darlok world builds a colony ship on the same turn as my Evon homeworld, I don't get the two ships both named "Colony Ship" in my reserves confused and them them to the wrong planets.

This is an area where a patch would really help...

	07-03-2003 16:57									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Now I´ve gotten into the same Problem.

Had conquered the Elerian Homeworld, which is a Paradise, from the Guardian.
Tried to colonize it.

I wondered why my first Colonyship didn´t create a Colony, so I sent a Second One.
Now I have a Colony which is inhabited by the Audrieh and the Imsaeis
Just have activated the "Migration-Switch" to make the Main Population Psilon. Seems to work, the First turn after I activated it had some hundred of Psilons appear on the World.

Just don´t want them to change my Paradise into a world more fit for Imsaeis or Audriehs.

I think I´ll mark my Colony Ships as obsolete, so the Computer AI doesn´t build them on its own anymore.

And yes, maybe I build different designs, for every Race one (which will be very much, as I have 2 sizes of Colony-Ships and I have a couple of Races within my Empire, let me see: the Darlok, Alkari, Audrieh, Rhea, Klackon, Imsaeis, Ithkul and the Sakkra).

Last edited by Proteus_MST on 07-03-2003 at 17:05

	27-03-2003 21:53									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

what do you use in building a colony ship that differenciates race or racial needs? Or is it just in name so you know which is which?

	27-03-2003 22:47									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Eston3 what do you use in building a colony ship that differenciates race or racial needs? Or is it just in name so you know which is which?

A colony ship is filled with the race that has the largest population on a planet (as far as I can tell the minority race(s) are never included).

Magnate races will slowly colonise new worlds on their own, but you can significantly increase the rate of this by building colony ships. The reason to do this is that you can colonise worlds that are red for your race but green for the magnate race. But the Rhea like very different worlds from the Audrieh who like very different worlds from the Meklar who you have conquered. So you are going to want to identify which race is on a colony ship so that you can send it to the appropriate type of planet. But the only way to tell is by using different names for colony ships and only building ‘RheaColony’ ships on planets that are dominated by the Rhea and ‘MeklarColony’ ships on Meklar worlds etc. This requires A LOT OF MICROMANAGEMENT! If that’s not your thing, don’t bother with this, just let those other races do the colonising on their own.