03-03-2003 20:55									#1
	Discussion: Fiscal Policy (ie rushing/upgrading) Increase Your PM Length

As I stated in the DIA election thread, I want to form some general policies regarding our energy reserve and what we do with it, and I want it do so democratically. This thread is for eliciting ideas and suggestions before the actual polls, since the options are not clearly defined.

For those of you unfamiliar with the latest data (pulled from the pre-truce save):

Our current energy reserves: 1090 energy credits
Our current net energy income: 616 energy credits per turn (*great* job on getting it this high, everyone)
edit - Required # energy credits to begin cornering the global energy market: 27615 energy credits

Anyway, the main topics I want to discuss (feel free to bring up other ones that you feel are relevant) :

1) What sort of energy reserves should we maintain? This breaks down into two questions, imo:
a) What amount of ecs in the bank should we "aim" for? 500? 1000? 5000? 10000? etc...
b) How "strictly" should that threshold be observed? No special spending at all until it is satisfied, or just reduced spending (for some to-be-determined definition of "reduced")

2) What kind of general policy do you all want for rushes? Only facility rushes that are past the first 10 mins? Only rushes that satisfy a certain ecs spent to turns saved ratio? Do you feel the policy should be different depending on the nearby industrial resources (ie min production and crawlers for extra mins)?

3) How should our rushing "allowance" be divvied up amongst the regions? Should we bother with that kind of policy? Should we base it on mineral/energy production, while giving extra subsidies to developing regions (ie Solaris)?

Anyway, thanks for your time, let me know your ideas everyone

Last edited by Cedayon on 03-03-2003 at 21:17

	03-03-2003 22:37									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

1) I would go for keeping a reserve of 1000 ec, and never go beneath that except in extreme emergencies, like having to rush a garrison to protect against mind worms.

2) I would indeed only go for facilities beyond 10 mins. These only costs 2 energy per mineral, while units costs way more.

3) As you say, I'd base it on energy/mineral production, with more funding to brandnew regions (ie only Solaris).

	04-03-2003 02:01									#3
	Got spare money?

1) Reserve of whatever's left after that turn's rushing. Setting it at any specific level would only limit us.

2) Yes, always after the first 10 minerals. I do hope our production levels are such that this shouldn't be a problem. We can always rush for overrun anyway.

3) Base it on whoever the hell has something that needs rushing this "year".

	04-03-2003 02:25									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Archaic 1) Reserve of whatever's left after that turn's rushing. Setting it at any specific level would only limit us.

Indeed, it is limiting, but don't you think it's a good idea to have at least enough to provide for a few emergency upgrades of units in the case of a surprise attack (from worms or other factions)? I agree that our defenses and reaction forces should get to the point where this is unnecessary, but I'm not sure they're there right now. Maybe 1000 is too high, maybe it's too low. I'll have a "no mandated reserve" option in the poll, but I don't expect to win.

quote: 2) Yes, always after the first 10 minerals. I do hope our production levels are such that this shouldn't be a problem. We can always rush for overrun anyway.

Yea, rushing for overrun is usually pretty cheap.

Just to be sure though, do any of you think there should be official policy on whether to rush for 10 min overrun or not?

quote: 3) Base it on whoever the hell has something that needs rushing this "year".

Up to 7 year periods need to be planned for, but I get the point. The "allowance" thing would be for when we're in a position of scarcity and cannot honor all rush requests. Pretty much my decision making process will be:

"Is this type of rush/upgrade allowed?" (ie a facility past 10 mins, and not a non-emergency rush of an at-0-mins unit)

"Is our reserve minus the cost above the threshold, or is violating the threshold in this case permitted?"

If the answer to both is yes, I say yes (unless I see a better way of doing it, which I will then suggest and see if it really is better).

This becomes more complicated with multiple rush/upgrade requests, particularly when there's money for *some* of the requests but not *all* ... it's unlikely that I'll flat out refuse a reasonable rush, but it may be delayed a turn or so until we have the funds. So some set of priorities needs to be agreed upon for conflicts, particularly inter-regional. My fears may be unfounded, though, and the Governors will be able to work out the rushing priorities amongst themselves.

	04-03-2003 04:53									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I’ve already stated my personal views on our fiscal policies. But here they are again:

1) Keep the reserves at around 5000 energy credits, but go ahead and spend it if necessary. This would let us fulfill all rush requests governors and directors may have, and the reserves would still be high enough in case of emergencies (i.e. in case we need to rush build a secret project, or mass upgrade units, etc.);

2) Rush requests for less developed bases should be approved in order to facilitate their industrial growth, as for industrially strong bases the rush requests should be more closely examined to see if they are really necessary;

3) No rushing allowances, maintain the current policy; or alternatively set up a rush allowance for each region (each region receiving the exact same amount of energy credits for rushes), this would be simpler than giving more energy credits to less developed regions since some regions would not use up their entire rush allowance, and the unused portion would be ceded to other regions.

	04-03-2003 05:27									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Voltaire 1) Keep the reserves at around 5000 energy credits, but go ahead and spend it if necessary

if we do that, we get energy crashes

keep a minimum of about 1K for emergencies. i don't think we'd have too much trouble keeping under our ~600/turn so i'm not sure if we'll need limits or not. there was a poll a while ago (december?) but i don't remember what happened with it.

	04-03-2003 07:09									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

We already got an energy crash

And I'm with the 1000 ec reserve, personally. Perhaps as low as 500, since we make so much per turn. Once our income passes 1000/turn (not too unlikely) I'd just drop reserves altogether unless we were making dangerous moves.

I'm also considering scrapping this whole allowance idea, since we're not likely to encounter huge shortages and I'm sure the gov's and I can work it out if there are problems. The quicker people get me their rush requests, the more likely it'll work out

	04-03-2003 11:50									#8
	Support Apolyton

1)a) If we have to set an arbitary figure, 1000 sounds good, but I don't think that's really necessary.

b) It should be just a general guideline, so we exercise caution if we're near or below it, but we shouldn't sotp spending altogether.

2) Only facility rushes that are past the first ten mins (altohugh overrun should eliminate this problem most of the time), and unit rushes only in emergencies. For very expensive rushes (e.g. 500 or more) should be analyzed on a cost/benefit system, but for smaller ones this is unnecessary.

3) I don't think it's a good diea to divide up funds between regions, as this could lead to a lot of unpleasant arguing over the fairness of the division. I think it should just be divded up on the basis of who needs it.

	04-03-2003 15:25									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

1) Upgrades don't cost too much really, assuming we'e been good boys and made the prototypes (If not, rush one unit to it to prototype, then mass rush the rest). 1-3 turns worth of EC's in most cases. We can just as easily upgrade *before* the emergency happens rather than after.

	04-03-2003 18:43									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus 1)a) If we have to set an arbitary figure, 1000 sounds good, but I don't think that's really necessary.

I'm more and more inclined to agree, though I wanted to bring it up so the fiscal conservatives (ie Voltaire) could have a chance to get the policy they want.

quote: 2) Only facility rushes that are past the first ten mins (altohugh overrun should eliminate this problem most of the time), and unit rushes only in emergencies. For very expensive rushes (e.g. 500 or more) should be analyzed on a cost/benefit system, but for smaller ones this is unnecessary.

Yea, for really expensive rushes I'll ask how much it will go down in a few turns, and if it can be rushed then with more or less the desired effect. I want to avoid spending lots of ecs for relatively little minerals if possible.

quote: 3) I don't think it's a good diea to divide up funds between regions, as this could lead to a lot of unpleasant arguing over the fairness of the division. I think it should just be divded up on the basis of who needs it.

I agree, as I said just above, consider the idea scrapped (unless someone really wants it in the poll).

	05-03-2003 05:11									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

K, here's what I'm thinking of for the poll(s) :

1) Should we maintain an energy credit reserve?
--No
--Yes, 100 credits will do
--Yes, 500 credits will do
--Yes, 1000 credits will do
--Yes, 2500 credits will do
--Yes, 5000 credits will do
--Yes, 10000 credits will do
--Yes, and keep at least 25000 in there, I want to buy an economic victory!

2) What kind of non-emergency rushes should be permitted, in general?
--Any rush
--Only rushes past the first 10 mins
--Only base facility rushes, that are past the first 10 mins
--Only rushes that cost less than x (someone give me a number if they want this option)
--Only rushes that satisfy a certain cost/turns saved ratio


Comments are requested and appreciated.

Last edited by Cedayon on 05-03-2003 at 05:23

	05-03-2003 05:19									#12
	Got spare money?

What about this option? :
--Only rushes of base facilities past the first 10 mins

	05-03-2003 05:23									#13
	Remove this text

edited it a bit, that's now in there.

	05-03-2003 07:51									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Looks good.

	05-03-2003 08:08									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Any other suggestions? I'm probably gonna post the polls (may as well split it into 2 to avoid the multi-choice problems) pretty soon... either in 2 hours, if I'm still up, or in the morning.

	05-03-2003 17:24									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

best to put it in 1 poll IMHO. people got confused when i split up the science polls

	05-03-2003 18:37									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

keep enough cash to buy two yangbases or 1 gaian as necissary (2500 EC)